173. Make Better First Impressions Through Your Style with Kristina Pernfors

As an online entrepreneur, we are often the face of our companies. Everything about us speaks, from the way we groom ourselves to the way that we physically show up AKA our appearance—all these things matter.

It is an extension and enhancement of our brand which sends a message to our prospects and our audience (whether we like it or not!) But the question is, are you happy with the message that's being shared?

Today's guest, Kristina Pernforns, an Image and Interior style specialist is going to help you understand exactly how your personal style reflects how you want to be seen. And if you want to build trust and credibility with your audience, you have to look the part.

Episode Highlights:

• Kristina’s background in fashion and interior design—how she pulls these two together in helping people build their online brand
• How what you wear can affect how you perform and how you feel about yourself (and ways that you can unintentionally sabotage how others see you)
• Kristina's “Red Thread” theory—how we all wear different hats, but not distinctly different personalities
• Creating a strong, authentic personal brand and style—where’s the best way to start 
• Plus tips in leaving a better first impression (specifically for someone who is not so fashion forward)

 
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Transcript

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Heather Sager  1:41  

Well, today's episode is going to be one that you are going to want to bookmark and come back to, there are so many takeaways. When it comes to building your online brand, how you show up, meaning physically what you choose to wear when you're on a stage or on video, it sends a message to your audience. And I know we would all love to not be a book judge by its cover but it's just we're wired as humans. We judge people and first impressions are made and as today's guest is going to help you understand how you choose to show up your physical style that you use when you show up and speak as an online entrepreneur. It matters. And if you want to build trust and credibility with an audience, you have to look the part. Now that doesn't mean that you need to be fake and dress that something that you're not but you do have to be aware that what you choose to wear, how you choose to style yourself, how you groom yourself, yes, all these things matter and it might not be the sexiest conversation, but you are going to frickin love what my guest today and I cover when it comes to building your own personal brand style as an online entrepreneur. 

Heather Sager  3:02  

So a little bit about today's guests before we dive in. I talked about this in the interview, but you're gonna meet my friend Kristina. Her official title is she's an image and interior style specialist and CEO of Aesthetic and Style LLC, Kristina Pernfors. I met her in New York City and I share this story at the top of the interview. Kristina and I both attended an event together in New York and I was blown away, not just by Kristina's style, but Kristina has a presence about her that you're drawn to and I think you're going to experience that both in audio form today but she's got a wonderful Swedish accent. But you're also going to experience that if you do choose to watch the episode, you can head on over to thespeakerco.com. Go over to the podcast, find the latest episode and you can watch our YouTube video of it where you actually see Kristina in action and you'll see the things she talks about in this episode. 

Heather Sager  3:02  

But Kristina, one of the reasons why I wanted to have her on the show is not, she's not only a brand stylist, she actually has this really interesting story around how she took her experience as an interior designer and realize that the clients that she was designing homes for, they love their spaces, but they're like, I don't know how like, I don't feel like I belong here because they didn't feel like they were fancy like their homes. And she's like, I think there's something to this of how do we help ensure that the physical environment that you live in, and how you physically show up in your personal style, it really reflects how you want to be seen and this is really important when we think about online entrepreneurship. We are often the face of our companies and like it or not the way that you groom, the way that you speak as we talk a lot about the show, the way that you physically show up in your appearance, it sends an impression to your prospects and your audience. And the question is, are you happy with the message that's being shared? And if you're not feeling extremely confident where you're not getting the reception that you desire, if you're not attracting the quality clients you're after, this might be an area that you really can step up in your game. 

Heather Sager  3:02  

Now, we're not going to tell you to go buy a bunch of fancy clothes today. We actually address that at the end of the episode that you do not need to have a ton of money or go buy a new wardrobe, but what it does require you, you need to be clear around how you want to be seen and how you make that happen through your physical appearance. This interview is one of my favorites I've done in quite a while. Kristina is so refreshing to listen to. She's got really great stories and she does this interesting thing I want you to pay attention. Just very interesting thing in this episode that she weaves in artists, like physical painting artists and historical references, like, oh man, I can't remember. I just lost the name of it on top, that really famous painter artists, you're gonna know exactly as you listen to the episode. But she has this really beautiful way of weaving in this historical nature into the conversation and it was just really fascinating not only listening to what she had to say, but her style in which how she communicates around her brand. Style, no pun intended, our guest pod and totally intended but you're gonna love listening to Kristina. 

So we talk about, she's got a phenomenal free resource page on her website, you can go to it. I've listed the link in the show notes. It connects with Kristina and Christina with a "K," connect with kristina.com. Go check out all the information. I have recently started working with a personal stylist here in Portland and it really has become a game changer, not just my wardrobe, but how I think about how my wardrobe and physical appearance, how it is an extension and enhancement of my brand online, and I want you to be thinking about this too. Should you be building your brand? Should you be looking for more of that inner confidence so that you can better connect with your ideal clients? I hope you enjoy this interview. I can't wait to hear what you think.

Heather Sager  7:14  

All right, friends, welcome back to another episode. I am trying to get my voice back but I required it to show up today because I am so excited to share with you today's guest, my friend, Kristina is in the house and we're talking all things style, all things first impressions, and oh my gosh, she's gonna knock your socks off. Maybe literally and figuratively. I don't know. We'll see. I don't know if socks are allowed when we talk about style, but Kristina, welcome to the show, my friend.

Kristina Pernfors  7:41  

Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Heather Sager  7:44  

I am too. You and I met, let's go back five months, you and I met in New York City. I talked about it. I talked about going to this big event that was a boujee event in New York City with a bunch of media people and there was like retreat applications, all these things and I remember being very intimidated walking in that room and I looked across and I saw you in all of your fashion glory, and I remember looking going, oh my gosh, that woman is beautiful and she is so well styled and put together, I have to ask her how I can step up my game quite a bit and then I was too embarrassed to talk to you because I was super shy and felt super awkward and then we randomly met at the bar. I think after the first night, I can't remember but put a little champagne in me and I got brave and I thought it's like hitting on someone at the bar. It was business hitting on you and I was crushing and now here we are. Is that the most awkward setup for our interview ever?

Kristina Pernfors  8:40  

I love it and I distinctly remember us on the velvet, the green velvet couch. 

Heather Sager  8:48  

Yeah. Oh, it was a green velvet couch. 

Kristina Pernfors  8:51  

Yeah, it was great. Yeah, it was fun. We talked for a long time on the green couch. Yes, that's good.

Heather Sager  9:02  

It was good. Okay, you're amazing. Little intro, so I've already read officially your bio and such but everyone's just gonna love hearing your story today. I'm gonna start things off with a really clear question because it's very fascinating to me around what you do. I've had stylists come on the show before talking about first impressions and really thinking about how you show up as a business owner, especially when you build an online brand but I have never met anyone who combines interior design and fashion together and I am so interested around how you decided to pull those two things together to do what you do today. So can you talk a little bit about how a stylist becomes an interior designer? I don't know which came first, the chicken or the egg but you make two things come together so magically well. I'm just very curious about the story here.

Kristina Pernfors  9:52  

Well, it's it's not when you really get into it. We're all objects of size, proportion, color. We are, our environments are, and a lot of the same rules apply to interior design and to personal style but it started with, my background is marketing advertising so building brands was my first love but I grew up around fashion. My mom and my grandmother owned women's boutiques in Sweden so I kind of grew up in that environment with clothes was very comfortable learned early. That it's not one size fits all. It's not one style fits all so I got a good, without knowing it, I got a good education early on. Everyone's unique, you got to find, you know, what works for different people, and what works for different bodies but really it was interior design was a little bit out of a necessity because when I left my job in New York, I was an advertising executive in Manhattan. So after that, when I knew I wanted to leave my job in New York, when I knew I wanted to do something else, I wanted to stay in the country and the easiest visa to get what's the student visa. So I just kind of went with the wind and thought, what do I really want to learn more about and it was interior design so that's what I decided to go back and study. And throughout the years as an interior designer, I've often heard my clients say, you know, Kristina, why do I don't look as good as my house? What about me? Can you do something about me? And I thought, you know what, there is something there so that's when I decided to also certify as an image consultant. 

Heather Sager  9:52  

Yeah. 

Kristina Pernfors  9:54  

And yeah, it all works perfectly because it's all about you know, it's all about you. It's all about the person but the client, you want to feel comfortable in yourself, and you want to be comfortable in the space where you live.

Heather Sager  11:59  

I love this integration between the two. It makes so much sense. You know, it's funny, I too watch a lot of HGTV and especially when I was house buying or remodeling and those things, and I always wonder, I'm like, it is interesting to have somebody come in and do the design for you and it's so beautiful when they can get a picture out of your head and into a room. But you're right there is this disconnect around like I can't recreate that or I don't feel as pretty or I think you had mentioned this in your TED Talk. People are like, Oh, the room, like it feels so pretty, I don't want to live in it like there's a little bit of that disconnect there so I love the fact that you brought them back together. And now you work as an image consultant specifically with people, mostly with business owners, right?

Kristina Pernfors  12:40  

Yes, mostly with entrepreneurs, a lot of entrepreneurs that kind of is in that stage of, you know, you're building your own business but what about me? Can I be different? What about my brands? So it's, yeah,

Heather Sager  12:55  

What do you typically find, I'm curious with that piece. I would imagine a lot of your clients are similar to mine, where they come maybe from a corporate background and they're come from someone else kind of telling them how to dress, I mean, quite literally, with dress codes in corporate environments. How do you, what do you notice slash how do you help people kind of shepherd into uncovering what their own style is?

Unknown Speaker  13:16  

Well, it's all about going back to who you are. It's all about that personal brand. What is the image you want people to see? What is it you want to say? It's all about that. It's not about you know, I always say fashion is fleeting. Style is forever. And you know, when you know, what is style? Well, style is being true to yourself, is being authentic. That's your true style. And so it's all about going back to who are you and what is it you want to say? What kind of image do you want to portray?

Heather Sager  13:52  

Yeah, and I think it's kind of difficult for business owners who, even thinking about branding or marketing, how to translate, how you want people to see your business. How do you translate over that to clothing and fashion and style especially if you've never really identified as a fashion forward person? Okay, let's say someone's listening right now. They're like, okay, I'm curious about this whole thing. I'm curious about kind of putting together a little bit more stylish, polish brand. Do you have any tips around where maybe someone might start?

Kristina Pernfors  14:25  

So the best way to start and I know you do something similar I think in your work with, when you're coaching for speaking, it's about finding your, kind of your core attributes, your core values. So I say pick three attributes that you want to have describe you. We kind of, and then as we work we make it up to five but starting with three, so pick three attributes or adjectives for instance. Is it I want to be seen as successful? I want to be seen as classic or I want to be seen as a approachable? What are the three most important things for your brand, for your company to be seen as and how would you like that first impression, the first takeaway to be? And that's a great start. That's kind of the foundation of everything and from there, it almost becomes like a checklist. So everything you then choose, coming clothes, the accessories, your your office, all of it should be in line with those core attributes so that's the start. That's the foundation.

Heather Sager  15:34  

Yeah. So how, this is what I'm always curious, so we're gonna go on a little side tangent I shared with you when we were chatting via Instagram DMs. A couple weeks ago, I shared on my Instagram stories that I was doing this indulgent thing and I was hiring a stylist here locally in Portland who came from the in the closet, so we didn't know you're talking about the words, right? The fascinating part was the, okay, coming up with the words is one thing but for someone who doesn't like, understand what goes into style, I'm going to raise my hand on this one because I mean, I like clothes but I don't understand like the wardrobe formula or like how to piece things together. I see these people were hats on Instagram, and like, I don't think I could pull off a hat, like there's a disconnect between how do you go from the words to like, how do you bring that out. So for someone who maybe is not so fashion forward like me who's very basic in their wardrobe, any like, guidance around what to pay attention to to help them figure out how to make that better first impression you mentioned?

Kristina Pernfors  16:35  

So I call it the Red Thread theory. It needs to be because we all wear different things for different locations, right? You're not going to wear the same things going to the grocery store as you are in a big business meeting or running to kids soccer games.

Heather Sager  16:50  

I wear a ball gown to the grocery store. I don't know what you're talking about.

Kristina Pernfors  16:53  

I think we should spice up life a little bit, right? Just to make a statement. No, but there needs to be, when you have a strong brand, a strong personal brand, there is a red thread through all of your different hats, so to speak. But there's a red thread because those personal attributes will guide you and so your gym clothes will probably kind of reflect who you are as much as you're going out clothes, so that's the first thing there needs to be a red thread through everything and then when it comes to style, it's not about the budget, it's not about buying expensive or, you know, the more money you spend the more stylish you are. Absolutely not, it's all about the details. It's all about the little details. So I say don't spend money on clothes, I mean, you got to spend some because we have to wear something but it's not about the expensive clothing then instead buy a lot of fun jewelry, buy the accessories, if your man, uby a tie, a belt, things like that because it is those little details, those silent cues that really spilled the beans on who you are. 

Heather Sager  18:14  

Yeah, it is the little details pieces and it's so interesting as a, I don't know, as a person who doesn't really focus a lot. I mean, I love clothes, we'll just put that out and I always get compliments and stuff around my wardrobe what I wear, but I don't I always think about like shirts, pants or a dress. I'm not thinking about accessories. I mean, I wear the same necklaces every day. I have necklaces are more of like a personal thing versus a fashion thing so I'm actually thinking about that. But one of the things that really, that you really got me thinking about which I knew to be true but I had forgotten about is how important it is in that first impression piece. And you talk about this a lot in your TEDx talk, y'all. By the way, we're going to link Kristina's TEDx talk in the show notes. You need to go watch it. It's only 15, 16 minutes and it is so freakin good and the illustration she does in it, like will blow your mind so go watch it. But you talk a lot about first impressions and when I wrote this down, what you said was so good. You said, you talked about this idea that you're going to be judged either way. You want to make sure that people are judging you correctly and I wrote this up like, oh, I have to talk to her about this because I think especially in the online space, so many business owners building personal brands online are so freaked out that people are going to judge them. And the truth is, as you pointed out, people are gonna judge you no matter what. So can you talk about this idea of first impressions and judgment and your whole take on it?

Kristina Pernfors  19:38  

Absolutely. So yes, it we don't judge each other because we're me. It's how our brains work because you know, our brains have not developed since the beginning of humankind and iit's in a survival mode. We got to make quick, fast decisions and assumptions for survival is the, are we going to get killed or not? So that's why we make life easier by putting quick or putting in boxes. So when we see someone, we need to categorize them or put them in a box in order to move on, to knock installed or for them to kill us. It's that's where it stems from. It's not out of that we're judgmental or mean people. It's just how our brains work and we can't help it. And with first impressions, 55% of that super fast, less than seven seconds, actually, more like less than five second first impression is 55% is based on how we look, our appearance, how we walk, our body language, all that so it's more than half of the first impression is purely how we come across.

Heather Sager  20:56  

So for someone, I just think about where I've seen pushback in the past, right? This is where we complemented each other. I teach body language, I teach communication and it's all of that, like the verbal, that are sort of the nonverbals around how we communicate ,our resting, not so nice person face, how we use our hands, are we standing confident, are we are we slouching, if we're speaking on a stage, are we pacing frantically, or are we holding our own with confidence. There's all these cues that we communicate. But what's fascinating is, you now bring in this element around your body, right, you communicate through your body, but what you choose to put on your body and show the world actually communicates too. So we hadn't talked in before the interview, so I'm gonna put you on the spot here a bit. But can you talk about some of the ways that we may be negatively communicate impressions to our audience through what we choose to accessorize or wear? How that can actually kick back? Give us some examples or can you riff on that a little bit.

Kristina Pernfors  21:53  

Sure, absolutely. So if we are not in harmony, how we look is not in harmony, meaning I might wear a Chanel suit, but my shoes are scuffed or my hair looks like I rolled out of bed, then that is a disconnect, that is not harmonious because the old Greeks decided that when things are imbalanced in symmetry and in harmony, we consider it beautiful and when we consider beautiful, we trust it more. So if we are harmed if we are not harmonious meaning, there is something weird going on where there's not a red thread and how I look, that's one of these sort of alarm bells goes on for our first impression. 

Heather Sager  22:42  

Can I ask a question on that real quick? Does that also know internally too? So does that, I mean it's the physical trigger of someone else seeing you, but does that also ring true for yourself? And I keep thinking, virtual world people put on their top half of the fancy but then are wearing like, terrible sweatpants under the desk? Does that, is there something there?

Kristina Pernfors  23:02  

Absolutely, absolutely. You know, for us, our mental state or mental health has a lot to do with what we wear and what we choose to wear. So there is a term called enclosed cognition, there will be a test at the end. 

Heather Sager  23:20  

So writes down the quiz questions.

Kristina Pernfors  23:25  

Yes, And enclosed cognition means that what you decide to wear, can and will affect how you perform and how you feel about yourself. And just to kind of give an example is, we all have that one dress or that outfit that we feel smashing in. We go put it on and we're like, yeah, bring it on, whatever it is, bring it on, I got this. So that that's the one we put on sort of our, our power suit or our superhero cape. That is enclosed cognition, and then vice versa, when we don't feel that we're stepping into the role completely, when we feel that we're not wearing the right outfit, when we're only half dressed, we're putting in less effort. So yes, there is something and I think the pandemic kind of brought that on a lot that when we're half dressed, we're kind of halfway in and not putting our best effort out. 

Heather Sager  24:26  

Yeah, the amount of people that I heard or make memes or make mention online around, okay, I need to start wearing pants with buttons again. I need to start actually getting ready. I need it like, it was a world felt thing around. 

Kristina Pernfors  24:39  

Oh, yes. 

Heather Sager  24:40  

I can see that even from the I think perspective, a lot of people come to me because they want to get better on camera, they want to look better on the camera. Yeah, there's a contrast between they don't want to feel overly done and styled and put together, right? They're not a beauty influencer online but they also don't want to be like super messy bond disheveled. So I can see when you talk about that congruency and that harmony around just having it all go together, that makes a lot of sense that I can see how that really would impact confidence on camera. 

Kristina Pernfors  25:12  

Yeah, absolutely. 

Heather Sager  25:13  

Yeah. Okay, let's go back to the question around ways that maybe we sabotage, what we want people to see around us, and that might sound a little weird for people to think about around curating the image that you want to have but y' all, that's PR. I mean, that's people who have a lot of money literally pay people do this for thema and when we're business owners we have to do this for ourselves. So what are some other ways that people are unintentionally sabotage how others see them? 

Kristina Pernfors  25:41  

So it's, it's about feeling you have, you know, the imposter syndrome? Sometimes we want to dress down because we don't want to seem too successful or too glow glamorous. 

Heather Sager  25:57  

 Or too colorfull of yourself?

Kristina Pernfors  25:59  

Yes, exactly. So that's, and I think it's that that rings specifically true for women because we have a tendency of always wanting to kind of, or we have a tendency of being really hard on ourselves way harder than men. But, yeah, we tend to dress it down and not to not stand out, which is, is really, it's such, it's so sad because we're not stepping into our full potential. ,

Heather Sager  26:27  

Yeah that's oh, that's like a, you just really poke the bear and a great way on that one. I do see that in a lot of women and especially, okay, so when we think about online brands and online presence, there is very much this influencer culture of beauty brands and people who really show up very, very done up online. And a lot of times, as you see experts come in in the online space, they don't want to be grouped in with quote unquote beauty influencers online. They want to be seen as established professionals. Do you have any, one of the things you mentioned in your TED talk that I thought was really fascinating. You talked about a study that showcased how there's a correlation between the amount of time someone spends putting themselves together, standing in front of a mirror and I can't remember the correlation, but it was how other people see them with their trust factor. Can you talk about that piece?

Kristina Pernfors  27:15  

Yes. So especially in women, again, this is

Heather Sager  27:21  

Most of our audience is women so you're in good company. 

Kristina Pernfors  27:23  

Well, that's good. Good, talking to my people here. The time we spent grooming, meaning, looking put together, having the hair done, having some makeup, having maybe our nails taken care of, the more groomed we seen, the more money we make. And it did not matter if you are considered classically beautiful or not, it was the effort you seem to have put into your appearance made you look like you were more successful and therefore had an easier time asking for races or promotions and were overall more higher paid than women that didn't seem to put any effort.

Heather Sager  27:27  

This is fascinating to me. And I wonder is, you know, there's this thing called the law of diminishing returns where the point where you put so much effort onto something that the return actually comes down. I'm curious around that when I'd heard that stat. Initially, what I thought was I was like, hold on real quick. Sometimes you see a person who looks like they spent nine hours in front of the mirror like delicately hand applied every eyelash, and it is like, it is overdrive. Is there a point where when you put so much effort into your appearance that it's off putting? Is that a thing? 

Kristina Pernfors  28:48  

Well, there's no official study, but I have my own take on it. 

Heather Sager  28:52  

I want to hear your take on it.

Kristina Pernfors  28:54  

So when it looks when it's when it looks so stylish, but effortless meaning is just a natural occurrence and of course she's going to look right because that's how that's how she is. But when it looks to made up then it's not authentic anymore and that's when we saw see kind of the cracks in the facade. We're going oh, wait a minute. That's not how she woke up this morning or so it's it's a fine balance but I think we all know that person that always it's has, too much makeup on or is just, and that's that fine line, but when it's not authentic, when it doesn't look like it's part of who you naturally are, that you, you know, you look put together but it looks like it's it's a natural thing for you to do.

Heather Sager  29:51  

Yeah, it's that effortless factor. You know, it's interesting, and I'm just spitballing here, but the line between your voice and how you speak and how you show up with how you physically portray yourself. What reminds me of this is a lot of times people come to us here at Speaker Co, thinking like, oh, I want to be more polished, I want to be more put together but what they think that means is they need to be perfect with their voice, they need to sound great, they need to get every word right, that everything has to be nailed. But what I typically talk about with clients is like, you don't actually want to be perfect in everything that you say because first of all, we don't speak grammatically correctly. So if you were to quote unquote, speak perfectly, you would sound like a robot and be very unapproachable. People don't like perfect. They actually just like real authentic and helpful. And so we have to be aware of filler words, we have to be more casual with their language and there's that blend between polish, professional and personable that we have to bring together. I hear that coming through as you're talking about style. And I think what may ring true like okay, think about us today. I'm essentially we're in a sweatshirt, blazer and a T shirt, right? I like flat iron my hair today but I'm wearing very bare like makeup. You are very polished, right? You're like bagging it with the earrings that you have. I love the structure of your sleeve. We're both wearing black, all black in our outfits. But what's interesting is, as I see you today, how you show up, you have the eyelashes on you have the makeup on, you have the hair on, it's so authentic and true for your style. For me, when I, like I'm showing up in a T-shirt right now and a sweatshirt blazer, like it's very authentic for me. And I think like when you talk about figuring out that like your core words, like I don't know I just see our reflections here. I'm like, this is such a good example around putting yourself together but also showing up really true to you so I  just 

Kristina Pernfors  31:42  

Yeah, tthat's what it's all about and that that's what I think when it comes to style, a lot of people get scared or worried about that it has to be a certain way, it has to be what the magazines show. And that's one of the questions I get asked a lot is, so what am I supposed to wear this fall, this season? And I said, doesn't matter what outfit , you got to tell me who you are and then I can tell you what you should wear but you should not look at magazines to tell you what to wear. It's all about who you are.

Heather Sager  32:13  

Yeah, and honestly, magazine thing can be, it can be very, I don't know, you probably get this a lot. I'm gonna go off on a sidetangent here. But a lot of times in catalogs or even online, we seek clothes on other people and there is a big discrepancy around the shape of the model and how our bodies are shaped. So for example, for me, I am very hippie, I have like very, very wide hips and so when I see things in catalogs, I'm like, there's no frickin way that's going to look good on me and that messes with what we think is beautiful, and what we, like all that thing. Can you talk a little bit about that because I think that probably makes it harder for people to dress themselves because they have a skewed image of what clothes look like and then they put them on themselve and it just doesn't work.

Heather Sager  32:13  

Yeah, so learning about your body shape because, you know, there are five body shapes for women out there. We're all going to be one of the five or combination of two. There is no right or wrong. This is how we were born. So the quicker we embrace and learn how to dress our specific body shape, the easier life is because it's not, there's no right and wrong. It's all about knowing so that you can apply what works for your shape. But yes, a lot of the models and even in the plus size fashion, there is a lot of one shape that's being portrayed out there but that's why it's so important to not get into looking at the models out there. It's all about learn your shape. That is such a game changer and I do have a free guide for that anyone who wants to download that.

Heather Sager  33:55  

Yeah, I definitely think on that. We're gonna include that in here. It was talking about the end of the show, y'all. This is very, very insightful. I didn't I mean, I thought I knew my shape. But I, we're gonna go down a nother rabbit hole which is very much on brand for the show. Y'all I'm really, really tall. So most people just see me on video but when I stand next to someone, you experience  me live and I have extremely long legs. My legs are longer, so my ex in high school, six foot six. My legs were longer than his like I have freakishly long legs which everyone's like, Oh, how wonderful. Y'all that's very hard to find pants for, like wonderful, yes, difficult to shop. But I've really long legs, I've a really long arms, really short torso, really wide hips, but very skinny in places not in others, like we all have our different body things and it's really easy to look at one person to be like, Oh, they have it together but not. I was always finding myself trying to accommodate for the length or the long arms or the short torso of all like I was trying to mishmash things together. But when I discovered my quote unquote, shape type and realize the thing that I was trying to hide was the thing I actually need to emphasize, I was like, whoa, so that anyways. This whole body shaped thing and understanding that, game changer around instantly around how you look at clothes so,

Kristina Pernfors  33:55  

I mean, we make decisions, we get dressed every day. Why don't we learn these things in school? I mean, it should be like come with a manual, right? You're a person, these are the things you need to learn so body shape. And for men, men only have four body shapes because they're a little simpler but same thing there, when they learn about the shape of what they should and should not do for that shape. And by the way, you can do whatever you want. It's all about good, better and best. 

Heather Sager  34:37  

Yeah.

Kristina Pernfors  35:03  

So whatever you're comfortable with but there are ways when you learn to enhance what you love about yourself and we can always bypass the things we don't like about ourselves but when you learn that life becomes, getting dressed becomes a whole lot easier.

Heather Sager  35:58  

Yeah, it really does even for me just over the last couple of weeks, I'm like noticing things different. Okay, I'm gonna ask you a funny and controversial question here. Can we talk about jeans for a moment? 

Kristina Pernfors  36:11  

Yes, we may. We can absolutely do.

Heather Sager  36:13  

I am laughing because of the great debate online right now but I don't actually know if it's a debate or it's just people talking about the debate between like Gen X and Millennials and skinny jeans and mom jeans and high waisted jeans? Are skinny jeans out? I don't like, is that a thing, like I love skinny jeans? I don't know if I'm getting real information or just news. Helped me, Kristina. Are skinny jeans are still fashionable or am I embarrassing my children? 

Kristina Pernfors  36:43  

No so skinny jeans are not going to be as easy to buy within the next couple of seasons because they are, quote unquote, not in fashion right now. But again, when it comes to, and why they're not is because 90% of the population can't pull them off. So when you can wear skinny skinny jeans, absolutely, you should embrace it. But the problem is when something becomes a fashion statement like that and jeans because we all wear them, it's that's, it breaks my heart because for a while we all tried to squeeze in to skinny jeans. It doesn't work. So now what's on trend is you know, the boyfriend or the mom or the straight leg which is great for some body shape types. So yes, it's not, no. I say when you rock your jeans regardless of what type of style they are, when you walk them, you know, your confidence shows and that's what you should stick with.

Heather Sager  37:52  

Yeah, I love, I love that you explain it this way because I I am not a person who really cares much about fashion trends but it's so funny, so there's so many funny Tiktoks and reels of people talking about this great debate between Gen X and Millenials. I don't car, like do I look good? Do I feel good? That's that's fine with me.

Kristina Pernfors  38:11  

And what works for your body shape, what works for your body. I mean, my daughter is 13 and she has, she's shorter than me but have longer legs than I do. Yes, she can pull that off. I can't. So we all just got to you know, be realistic.

Heather Sager  38:26  

Find our thing. Something that I thought was really interesting. So for me I mentioned my really long legs, I have to be really aware of inseams with pants, but the thing that I had never considered and this might be, you're gonna laugh at me because you're like, well, this is very normal for you. I had never thought about measuring the height of a waistband. I saw quote unquote mom jeans and I'm like, okay, my let me just go back real quick. So I've talked about my mom before. I lost my mom when I was a teenager. My mom had, bless her soul, had terrible fashion sense like terrible fashion sense. My mom would wear socks with sandals. She also really like Tweety Bird T-shirts. I have a very vivid memory of that so when I think mom jeans I think of George Ash mom jeans that were just not not fashionable so my interpretation of mom jeans I just have some stigma with that. So coming back into my jeans I've always done more of like low rise or whatever of honestly what I can find and see wise. I'd never really thought about height because the tall height jeans just in my brain I had a weird thing with but we have measured the from the bottom of the zipper all the way up. 

Kristina Pernfors  39:36  

Yeah. 

Heather Sager  39:37  

We measured that when I had my stylist here and I was blown away I was like wait, what I need them to be how tall and in my brain I had because my legs are so long, I cannot do high waisted jeans because my torso so short that I would look like a cartoon character and she blew that out of the water for me when we talked about what that real hype is. So I don't know if you want to riff on that for a moment, but I don't know if I'm the only person who never really thought about that before but holy crap, that's a game changer.

Kristina Pernfors  40:09  

Just like we don't know our body shapes and how to dress the shape, most of us don't know our proportions. So with proportions, it's not a question of how big our tummies are if we all measure it from the top to the bottom, we don't go around. It's all proportion is and it was back to Leonardo da Vinci that discovered that if we are eight head lengths long, we are perfectly proportioned. So it has to be our own head. Since we all have different size heads, you got to measure your head and then

Heather Sager  40:41  

I don't think, you know, like, I'm gonna go measure that to be. I'm gonna write that down. 

Kristina Pernfors  40:44  

You can't do it yourself because you have to bend so you have to have someone do for you but then so the waist, if you were perfect, the waist hits at three head legs, the rise is one head length, and then our legs are four.

Heather Sager  40:58  

My gosh, this is so funny. 

Kristina Pernfors  41:00  

Most of us are not.

Heather Sager  41:03  

No.

Kristina Pernfors  41:04  

And even if we're height wise, are different body parts are not falling where they should. So all about what image consultants do and stylists, it's about making sure we adjust so that the you look more proportionate. That's what it's all about. So it's you know, and withtricks and things, it's all smoke and mirrors, you know, you can make a torso look taller, you can make a vise look lower, you can make legs look longer. It's all about learning those little tips and tricks. And again, it's one of those things no one ever taught us. That, hey, even Leonardo da Vinci knew and he, you know, it was a while ago since he was around so you would think that it would be common knowledge by now, but not.

Heather Sager  41:53  

It's not. And I love the way that you talk about it and the way that you teach it. You make it feel less daunting, right? You make it feel less overwhelming so I frickin I frickin love that and also DaVinci and his dry and perfectly proportioned people.

Kristina Pernfors  42:10  

Yes, yes. 

Heather Sager  42:11  

Oh, my God. 

Kristina Pernfors  42:12  

I should say one, my best friend is the only person I have met and I've measured measured a lot of people. She is perfectly proportioned and I had to re measure her four times because I'm like, no, no, no. There's no way. But yeah, so it doesn't mean that she thinks her body is slamming and she loves everything. No, she just happens to have the things in where Leonardo said they were perfectly proportioned.

Heather Sager  42:37  

The one head and the three heads. 

Kristina Pernfors  42:39  

Yes, exactly. 

Heather Sager  42:41  

I'm thinking of, side note, I'm thinking of the, anybody have ever played Super Mario Brothers where they go to the desert and there's like the cactuses stacked up and then the cactus is like, gulp. 

Kristina Pernfors  42:52  

Yeah. 

Heather Sager  42:53  

That's exactly what's in my brain right now.

Kristina Pernfors  42:55  

If you look at the original Leonardo drawings that's exactly what it is. 

Heather Sager  43:02  

Yeah, that's funny. Okay, I want you to debunk one common question or one common thought that people have and then we're going to talk about how people can learn more about you and all those little great resources that you mentioned through today's episode. I know a lot of people think fashion and they instantly think like, oh, my gosh, I don't have the money for that. And we think about fashion, we think about what we see the magazines and we see the $400 T-shirt, and we're like, there's no way I can be fashionable when I'm making a profit. I can be fashionable later. For now, I gotta be scrappy. Can you speak to that for a moment because you and I both know that that is not, it is not true.

Kristina Pernfors  43:39  

And this is something I feel very strongly about and it goes both for interiors and for clothes. I say you can do style on any budget. It's just about being consistent. Again, I talked about the red thread, it's all about that consistency. So a lot of my clients are surprised to find out that a lot of my clothes come from H&M and Express and Amazon  and consignment stores. I love a good consignment store. So no, it's not about the money you spend. It's about how well thought through it is and how that, again, that harmony from top to bottom. So don't worry about the price tag. It's then it's better to as I said before, go with something simple, clothing wise, and then spice it up. Put your own flair on it with accessories or ties or belts or shoes or bags or whatever but don't think that you can't be stylish just because you feel like you can't afford it.

Heather Sager  44:42  

Yeah, mike strap on that. I think is really important and especially when we think about building online brands, but if you're gonna show up whether it's photos or to a podcast interview, or you're doing social media on stories, we all know we want to feel our best that when we feel confident our audience is going to have more confidence on us, so I'm just gonna go on a limb here and double down and say, this is not like an optional thing for like people who like fashion, like it's a responsibility thing that when you show up as the face of your brand, you also need to look like the face of your brand.

Kristina Pernfors  45:14  

Yep. And it goes, it goes not just about stylish me posh. I mean, if you are a tattoo artist, you should look like a tattoo artist and you shouldn't look like you're some, you shouldn't show up in a Chanel suit. I mean, you got to be true to your brand and who you are. So it's not again, not one size fits all. It's about being authentic to you and to your brand.

Heather Sager  45:38  

I don't know, I'm thinking like a Chanel suit but with like a sleeve of tats or like a face tattoo, that'd be pretty badass. That's like a boujee tattoo artist.

Kristina Pernfors  45:47  

That's definitely going to get those gray cells thinking alert, alert, may day.

Heather Sager  45:54  

Oh, my gosh, I love it. Khristina, I could talk to you all day but I know we do need to wrap this. So where can people learn more about you and grab that guide that you were mentioning before where they can understand more about their body shapes. Where is the best place for them to connect?

Kristina Pernfors  46:07  

So the easiest place to go to is go to my website that's connect with Khristina and Khristina with a "K." Connect with kristina.com. I have my, a lot of free guides in all sorts of because I'm all about making life easier for everyone so you can download all the free guides, and if you have questions, you can reach out to me there. So yeah, connect with Kristina.

Heather Sager  46:31  

Perfect and we will put that in the show notes and then we'll also link to Kristina's amazing TEDx talk. It will take 15 minutes to go watch that today. It'll be a perfect complement to echo what we talked about today and give you some visual demonstrations of that. Kristina, one last question here. I want to give you the opportunity to think the person who's listening today who's like, Oh, I love this. Now I have a whole nother thing to add to my to do list and they're already coming up with all these ways that they're not right with their fashion or now they're feeling bad because they're like, oh, I need to be thinking about those things, just another thing on my list. Is there any hope or any encouragement that you can give them to help them leave this feeling light and feeling excited about taking this next step?

Kristina Pernfors  47:13  

Absolutely. So Rome wasn't built in a day. You're not going to change your style, or all of a sudden, grow a style overnight. It's all happening gradually. I think the fact that you're starting to think about it, and it's starting to kind of seep in to your awareness then you're halfway there so just thinking about it will get you there, and don't worry, let it take its time, just like everything that's important in life. It's going to take time.

Heather Sager  47:42  

It's gonna take time. It doesn't have to be that overnight switch thing for sure, maybe it's just goes as far I was joking last week that I got, I went to a wedding. I went to a wedding and I was chatting with someone and I was wearing a dress and they're like, Oh, you look nice. I'm like, I'm so excited. I'm wearing an underwear bra right now. That is not a normal thing, but putting on like a real bra and real spags. I was like, Oh, it was the mental thing that shows. 

Kristina Pernfors  48:06  

Yeah, yeah. 

Heather Sager  48:07  

Sometimes are wins are very small but we got to start somewhere. 

Kristina Pernfors  48:10  

That's right. 

Heather Sager  48:12  

All right, Kristina, you're amazing. Thank you so much for sharing so generously with our audience today. I am so appreciative to you and for those of you listening if you enjoy this episode, be sure to give a shout out on Instagram. I will include Kristina's Instagram handle on the show notes, but just tell us what you loved about this episode and if you are inspired to do anything based around what you learned today, be sure to tag us both in your Instagram stories. That is the best compliment when we can hear how y'all are using this stuff. So thank you again Kristina and we'll see y'all next week on the next episode.