The Heather Sager Show

Pages of Notes to a Post it - Milan’s Speaking Story

November 11, 2020 Heather Sager Episode 63
The Heather Sager Show
Pages of Notes to a Post it - Milan’s Speaking Story
Show Notes Transcript

In today's episode, you’ll hear from my Speak Up to Level client Milan Kowalewski, an online marketing strategist for aesthetic providers and MDs in New York City. As a marketer and podcast host, he has experience behind the mic, but found himself spending hours each week preparing notes before hitting record.  He wanted to find a way to prepare more efficiently while feeling confident that his message would have high value to his audience.

Listen in to learn the exact steps he took and how his speaking style has evolved over the last few months as he’s leveled up his speaking skills. 

Get the full show notes here including links mentioned in this episode.

>>> Are you an online entrepreneur wanting to speak on live or virtual stages?

Join me for my upcoming live training: How to Build Authority as a Speaker WITHOUT Second Guessing What You Say

COMMUNITY: Join Influential Speaking for Online Entrepreneurs, our free Facebook community where you can ask questions and connect with other business owners leveling up their speaking and marketing chops.

CONNECT: For daily tips and inspiration, connect with Heather on Instagram @theheathersager.

Milan Kowalewski  0:00 
When we're talking about speaking, anyone who's listening who works one on one with clients, even just being able to walk in confidently in pitching someone with your services, that was a huge change for me as well.

Not that I wasn't confident before but I knew what I wanted to say, I knew how the certain points that I wanted to hit on, I knew what stories to bring in from my origin story and how it would be relatable to those clients so it was, while yes, it definitely helped me with the podcast, just communication as a whole became a lot smoother and easier.

I think you had also mentioned this once before that, you know, oftentimes we look at all of these people, these influencers as they are, you know, and in the online marketing world, and we think to ourselves, oh, it just becomes so natural to them but the reality is as you've mentioned is they are practicing this, they're refining their message, they're showing up prepared and boy, what a difference that makes when you have done the work in advance and you control prepared.

Heather Sager  1:12 
Well, Hey, friend, welcome to another episode of the Heather Sager Show. I'm Heather and I believe that people don't connect with marketing. They connect with other people. So if you want others to see you as a go to authority, you've got to start showing up using your voice and sharing your message with intention so consider this show, right here, your new playground to become an influential speaker, so that you can actually start making strides towards that dream on your vision board. Let's go!

Hey, friend, welcome back to another episode of the Heather Sager Show. It's Coach Heather here today. We are diving into a conversation with one of my clients today. Milan, one of my graduates of my Speak Up to Level Up program.

He's a digital marketing expert. Specifically, he works with business owners in the aesthetic space. I'm gonna let him tell you because it's really specific. I wanted to give you an example of someone who is very niche in what they do but how getting more confident in your messaging and in your voice can transform your product offerings in your business.

If you are someone like Milan, where maybe you feel totally comfortable speaking in front of groups, maybe you've worked on that for years, but maybe you also spend a lot of time writing down what you're going to say or planning out to a tee, what's going to be on your webinar slides or what specifically you want to cover on a Facebook Live. This interview I think is going to be helpful because Milan is going to walk you through the process that he went through, through my programs, Speak Up to Level Up what he learned in that program, but specifically what he applied to get results in his business.

Spoiler, one of the unexpected results he got was the courage to finally publish or open cart on his group program, which as he talks about in the episode is something that he's been talking about doing for years.

Like you, he's been a student of digital courses. He's consumed the courses and in his words, he's done the studious thing, right, where we get the courses and we learn and we watch, and we learn and we watch maybe we even do the worksheets, and the and the activities, and we were really great students.

But there's a difference between learning information and actually putting that information into action. It's that learning into application that gets the ball rolling in our business.

Today's conversation, I want to give you examples just in case you're feeling stuck right now and you're not quite sure what that next move is. If getting your name out there is building that and growing that authority for yourself is important to you, if articulating your message and connecting with the right audience is something that you're passionate about, but you're not quite sure how to do it in a more effective way, listen to Milan story.

You'll get some tips and strategies from him around what you can be doing right now to grow that how to build that muscle of using your voice and really getting your message down.

And hey, if you love what we talked about today, if getting yourself out there building your authority and becoming seen as the go to in your niche and speaking charismatically and magnetically on virtual stages, or live stages when those open up again, if that's important to you, you have to come join me.

I'm going to give you a quick spoiler because tomorrow, so the day when this episode comes out, tomorrow I'm opening the doors to my brand new masterclass, how to become the authority in your industry by speaking on virtual and live stages, even if you have a small following.

That masterclass is going to be happening live on November 19th. If you want a ticket, go to the link in the show notes, snag your seat. It is the only time I will be teaching this training live, one time, on November 19th. There will not be a replay.

If you want to get your ticket head over there now. Also if you've been thinking, you've been following along on this show, and you've been thinking about checking out my program, Speak Up to Level Up. This is how you'll find out all the details. The specific framework that I teach for how to show up on a magnetic or in a magnetic way on a stage and get a message across that connects with the right audience and moves them further on the journey.

Check it out now, link is in the show notes. I hope to see you at that live masterclass. For now, I am so so thrilled to introduce you to Milan.

Alright guys, welcome back to another episode of the Heather Sager Show. Super excited to have an episode not about the Heather Sager. I'm actually bringing on a guests, one of my friends, one of my clients, I am so excited for you to hear from him. Milan, welcome to the show, friend.

Milan Kowalewski  6:41 
Oh my goodness, Heather! Thank you so much for having me on your program. I'm so excited to be here to talk not just to you, but also to your listeners.

Heather Sager  6:48 
Yeah, me too. Fun backstory of how Milan and I met. He actually, like slid into my inbox, months ago. I can't quite remember. I don't even remember how you cross paths, right? But he was trying to, he's poaching me to try to get me on his podcast. He had a great like pitch. He made me feel very special and like, Oh my gosh, people seeking me out to speak, very excited about it.

But fast forward, what turned out of Milan wanted me to be on his show, ended up being him following me, coming to my webinar and joining my program, Speak Up to Level Up, which I thought was hilarious.

So Milan, why don't we like, we're gonna do some stories around things and talk about you have been podcasting for a while now. You have great content. You help people with their marketing. You got a lot of good stuff going on but the last few months for you, you really made a lot of strides. I don't know what the right expression to use here. But you've made a lot of progress in just fine tuning how you show up on your platforms and in your business. Excited to dig in that today. Why don't you just start by sharing with people like what you do? What's your business? Tell us a little bit about what you do?

Milan Kowalewski  8:03 
Yeah, sure so my name is Milan. I'm a marketing coach here at digital marketer. I live in New York City, and I help professional service providers convert their followers into leads.

I think oftentimes when people hear that word follower, you know, they think of their social media followers. And of course, yes, I'm talking about that but I'm also talking about the people who are following you on social media, but haven't hit that follow button, or aren't necessarily engaging with you.

I'm talking about the people who are following your business as well so the people are visiting your website that you probably don't even know exist. I had left my corporate job about 10 years ago. I guess this is where it all began and I wasn't quite sure what I wanted to do.

A friend of mine was working for one of the top plastic surgeons here in New York City. I had done a ton of work in the beauty marketing industry before this. I thought to myself, you know what, let me try something new. And of course, you know, he's the best so I thought this would be easy, breezy.

You want to see the best? I got him for you right here, you know. I go for my first day. I'm so excited. I pep in my step. I'm walking down Park Avenue, past the Ferrari dealership, enter into these big glass revolving doors and get onto the elevator.

What do I see? I see his office, followed by another plastic surgeon who just happen to also brand himself as being the best. I quickly realized if you would have trawl a one mile square radius around this man's office, there were dozens of plastic surgeons, who also said that they were the best.

I thought to myself, why would someone go to him when they have all these other options out there. What I realized at that moment was, it's not enough to just say that you're the best, you have to show that you're the best.

I hired, you know, photographer and videographer to take some great photos and videos. Put it all over his website, because you know, social media was sort of a tendency stage and in a matter of months, doubled his business.

I wanted to be able to take this same concept that I created. I refer to this now as your signature promise and bring this to other clients. Here's the thing, when you're able to visually and verbally articulate who you are, how you can help and how you're different than your peers, that's the definition of what I refer to as a signature promise. That's when you're able, and by the way, take that and then sprinkle it, almost like a cupcake sprinkles across all of your marketing, that's when you're able to start converting your followers into leads, holistically, as I've described and that's how you're able to start standing out from your competition.

Heather Sager  10:53 
Oh, my gosh, beautifully, beautifully put, also, now I want some cupcakes. Okay, I love this. That was your very first client that you worked with. Fast forward, you've been working with clients, as a coach, as a marketing consultant for the last 10 years.

Take us to, I don't know, five, six months ago where you're at in your business? What led you to want to level up with your speaking? You've been doing great. You have a podcast. It's doing well. You have a great social media channel. You have a great client list. What was it that led you to go, 'Huh, I think I need to work on my voice.' I mean, you speak to people every day, very articulately so I'm curious around that decision.

Milan Kowalewski  11:40 
That's very kind of you to say thank you, Heather. I appreciate that. As you mentioned in the beginning of the episode, you know, at first, when I first discovered you, I thought, Oh, my gosh, I have to have her on my podcast. I've never spoken to a speaking coach before. That's true. It's true.

I'm not inflating your ego here. It's absolutely true. I found you through Amy Porterfield Facebook group, in fact. Someone had recommended you on there. I thought to myself, you know, before I hop on this call with her. Let me really see what she's about in this webinar.

Heather Sager  12:16 
It was like a virtual virtual audition but I didn't know.

Milan Kowalewski  12:21 
Exactly, exactly. As I was listening to, you know, I came to this realization that I really plateaued in where I could take myself. I'm not professionally trained in video. I taught myself how to podcast. I taught myself how to structure my episodes on my podcasts, all of that.

I knew at that very second, that I had two options, basically, one I could level up myself and that could be five years from now. I have no idea how long that would take me or I could invest in someone who's been there before, and has the fast track, the highway, so to speak, to get me there. That's essentially why I signed up.

Heather Sager  13:07 
It's interesting you talk about that idea of the plateau because I don't think a lot of people think about their, we think about our business plateau. We think about kind of being like our life being lackluster, or going through little thunks, or phases with our habits or routines or being maybe tired or bored of our content delivery that we do.

But I don't hear people talking about plateauing with their own skill set of their voice so talked a little bit about that. What was plateauing feeling like for you?

Milan Kowalewski  13:38 
It was feeling like I was creating mini blog posts for my podcast episodes that were three or four pages in length. It felt like I was not able to produce them fast enough and I was always catching up. I wasn't able to batch anything. I wasn't able to grow in my own business because I was so focused on my delivery skills. I was constantly looking back at what I had recorded and doing the take several times.

I mean, Heather, my first podcast episode took me five hours just to actually speak it and say it, you know. By the time I met you, you know, I'd gotten better at that for sure but I wasn't able to take what was in my brain and make it much shorter, and deliver it with the same impact.

It always had to be detailed and I knew that while I could act as if I wasn't reading something, I knew oftentimes I was reading something. It just sounded like I wasn't you know.

Heather Sager  14:44 
Yeah it's a proces is that you would you know, talk about this before. Your process was you'd have an idea for an episode and then you'd sit on your computer and you would write out essentially most of the episode right and then pseudo read it, but try not to sound like you're reading but you would you would have everything planned so you would come across like you wanted to. Is that correct?

Milan Kowalewski  15:06 
Yes, almost like whatever was in my head, it would be on paper and I would structure almost like an outline almost like course or program outline. I would just then go through it in segments. It wasn't always reading. Don't get me wrong, you know.

There were parts where I felt comfortable of actually speaking but there were a lot of times where you know, the details if there's like a statistic I needed to mention or something that I knew I really wanted to hone in on that I would definitely have that bolded so I was like, yeah, you gotta hit that one.

Heather Sager  15:40 
What about that wasn't working for you?

Milan Kowalewski  15:45 
I think the timing. The amount of time and energy it took to actually produce that and to know that if I wanted to take my business to the next level, I needed to free up time in my space. I needed to be more comfortable. I needed to be comfortable pitching myself on other people's programs and podcasts, something that I was very uncomfortable doing before and had very little experience in doing.

I've had many people in my program and I have no problem asking the questions but when it comes to them asking me the questions, that was a challenge.

Heather Sager  16:25 
Yeah, okay so that idea of getting out there. You knew to grow your show, grow your business, and some of the bigger goals you have for yourself down the road, you didn't have the time to work on those things. It's interesting that you bring this piece up because I think a lot of times we think, oh, content creation, is the thing we do, therefore it should take a lot of time and that's not necessarily untrue.

It does take time to craft your outlines and get things down but I love the fact that you brought up this idea that it shouldn't take so much time. The underlying piece I know you and I talked about inside of Speak Up to Level Up was you're trusting your own ability to get those ideas out of your head and through your mouth at the same time, I guess like be able to speak on the fly. Can you talk a little bit about what changed in your process in learning some of the techniques we talked about inside of the program? What changed from instead of doing such a detailed outline and a lot of prep before every podcast interview, what did you start doing like what shifted for you and then what was the results of that?

Milan Kowalewski  17:34 
This is something I know you speak on other podcast episodes as well but this one specific exercise literally changed everything for me.

Heather Sager  17:43 
Hit it. We use to say it so many times because I bet there are people who heard it, but they still don't do it so let's put this into action.

Milan Kowalewski  17:50 
Word vomit exercise.

Heather Sager  17:52 
Is this the thing that I become famous for? I'm okay with it.

Milan Kowalewski  17:57 
I think you need to trademark this as quickly as possible before someone else.

Heather Sager  18:02 
Calling Paula.

Milan Kowalewski  18:03 
There you go. No but it's it's so true because when I first joined and this was said in one of the first few weeks of the program. You said something that really stood out to me and that was if you can say it once, you can definitely say it again but the only thing holding you back from saying it again, is getting up in your head.

I was like, oh god, that's so good. That's such, she's so dead on with that, you know. I am getting up in my head and I did say once and it sounded great so why am I beating myself up over this.

When I started doing, and we spoke about this too, now we're gonna get personal. When I started doing these word vomit exercises, I do my best thinking in the shower. Think on no one was here at this time but I've had literally word vomit what I would be wanting to talk about on that podcast episode in the shower,

And yeah, it would sound like crap in the very beginning but as I went over it and ironed out some of what my thoughts were, it started to come together more clearly and being able to do that and then take those sort of bullet points and putting them on post.

This is now what I do. I put them on post-its. I have about 10 post-its on my table. It's been a total game changer in terms of the speed I can do it at, the delivery, the way I sound, sounds better because I sound more genuine versus un-genuine. Is that a word?

Heather Sager  19:39 
You sound more like you would if you were just talking to someone versus if you were quote-unquote presenting. There is a different tone that happens. We think it's a buzz phrase. We use a lot of marketing. Be more conversational in your writing. Be more conversational in your speaking.

The challenge is if you're not speaking, just kind of quote-unquote off the cuff like if you're not just speaking to someone, it's hard to sound conversational if you're working from a script.

Milan Kowalewski  20:05 
Exactly, exactly, so that was my biggest change I would say.

Heather Sager  20:09 
Yeah, so you had mentioned one of your goals around this was to save some time. I'm just kind of curious, I had not seen this before so hopefully, this won't backfire on me. Talk about the time difference. It now takes you to prep and create an episode versus what it was before.

Milan Kowalewski  20:24 
Yeah, sure. Now it takes anywhere between an hour, an hour and a half to prep because, you know, I still do want it to have value. Obviously, this is what we all want in our content but it's smoother - the prepping process.

The prepping process is more about sort of a combination of word vomiting and writing it on on these postits, which is why it's will take about an hour, an hour and a half, because there's some refinement as well that I want to go through.

And then recording now takes me about anywhere 20-30 minutes. I still word fumble every once in a while. I mean, I think that's normal.

But you know, to go from spending,god, maybe six, seven hours at sometimes to narrowing that down from the entire process to an hour and a half, huge difference. Huge difference.

Heather Sager  21:16 
Yeah. You mentioned before you wanted that space to free you up to do other things. How are you now using that freed up time for other things in your business?

Milan Kowalewski  21:27 
Yes, so that's a great question. Well, I'm definitely working with with more clients, which I think that probably would have been more challenging to do without having that time. I have more confidence as well.

It wasn't even just with the podcast, I have to tell you. When we're talking about speaking, anyone who's listening who works one on one with clients, even just being able to walk in confidently in pitching someone with your services, that was a huge change for me as well.

Not that I wasn't confident before but I knew what I wanted to say, I knew how the certain points that I wanted to hit on, I knew what stories to bring in from my origin story and how it would be relatable to those clients.

So it was while yes, it definitely helped me with the podcast, just communication as a whole became a lot smoother and easier. I think you had also mentioned this once before that, you know, oftentimes we look at all of these people, these influencers as they are, you know, and in the online marketing world, and we think to ourselves, oh, it just becomes so natural to them.

But the reality is, as you've mentioned, is they are practicing this. They're refining their message, they're showing up prepared. And boy, what a difference that makes when you have done the work in advance and you control prepared.

Heather Sager  22:50 
I 100% agree with this. I think, you know, in a world right now, especially in this space, and online marketing, we're all sold that there is an easy way, right? There's the fast track way of getting to where you want on every webinar. It's you have two choices. You can struggle and continue to be whatever negative thing, or here's the light to the end of the whatever. I don't like that.

I hate this idea of giving anybody that false hope that in order to become a good communicator, there's some magic recipe, because the only way to get better is to go through the slides and do the hard work, and you did that for sure.That word vomiting exercise, it's that.

It's not pretty, people. It's not pretty and you're gonna fumble and it's gonna be awkward but there's two ways you can go about it if you want to have that kind of presence, have that kind of seemingly natural delivery, like, whoever it is that you aspire to become like, that you can either do that exercise in private. You can be practicing behind the scenes, or what I did in my business.

Well into before my business, the way that I got really articulate and really good was I was on stages every single day in my old job. I was presenting in staff meetings. I was leading trainings from the front of the room. Anytime someone needed a speaker, I raised my hand whether or not I was qualified or prepared or not.

I was on stages every day. What that means is, I was never ready. I was never fully prepared. I was never the first person for the job but I'm like, I'm gonna treat every opportunity as one to practice.

The more I did it, the better I got which is why it's so easy for me to hit record and go now. I think this idea that you're talking about is like the practicing piece, I don't think that's something that people get at like you can't just sit back and watch a course and think that miraculously you're going to study and get better. You have to do the work.

Can you talk about that piece of you doing the work because you did through the program? You were always showing up, getting feedback on things, keeping moving. What does that look like from you or for you in quote-unquote doing the work?

Milan Kowalewski  25:00 
Well, number one, I thought to myself, listen, I've invested in other programs and courses in the past, and I've done somewhat of what you've described, thinking I'm just going to learn through osmosis, which never actually works and never actually happens, as you mentioned.

This time, you know, I said to myself, listen, if I'm gonna invest in something like this, I try and make promises to myself whenever I invest in something that is, you know of substantial amount.

I said to myself, if I'm going to invest in something like this, I'm going to show up, I'm going to go through the motions, and I'm going to do the best job I can, and so that's why every time there was an opportunity to workshop something out with you or to come prepared with some of the the lessons, some of the exercises that we did through 'SULU, I thought to myself, I need to do it and this is the only way that I'm just going to become better at it.  I just trusted in the process is basically what it came down to.

And was I perfect at it all the time? No, I got a little behind. In my head, what I thought was behind, here in there, and that was okay. But at the end of the day, just trusting in the process and going through those exercises, and making time to actually do that. That's how I was able to get to where I am now compared to where I was before.

Heather Sager  26:32 
Yeah. Let's talk about what that looks like for you of where you're at now. What are some of the changes that you've made personally or to your business? What's different now?

I know, one thing that's coming up is you're launching a program so talk about that.

Milan Kowalewski  26:50 
Well, I've been talking about launching this program for years. I mean, I joined Amy Porterfield's program. This was before it was even DCA. It was 'Courses that Convert.'

Heather Sager  27:01 
Yeah, fellow 'Courses that Convert' alum.

Milan Kowalewski  27:04 
Yes, exactly except I never became the alum because I got stuck in.

But I wasn't sure. The communication aspect is equally as critical when you're doing something like that, and being able to articulate to people what it is that, you're going to be delivering, what is the transformation.

You and I were talking about this one day, and it was like a lightbulb moment for me which was I always thought my program was really about personal branding. While I still aspire to that, I think that's what people will inevitably end up becoming is a personal brand.

You had said to me, 'No, listen, your talk is about conversion marketing.' And I was like, 'Oh, so right.' I was looking at it from a completely different perspective and once I realized that, that was when I was able to develop my framework. Something that was loosey goosey before that I didn't really have because, you know, working with one on one clients, they don't really care about your framework. They just care, can you get the thing done, and show me the results. That's it.

Being able to develop that framework, and I had people that were waiting. This was the awful part. I mean, I feel guilty about this as well sometimes. I have people who were waiting for me to launch this, waiting to work one on one with me from all around the world that couldn't have my agency services, essentially.

The fact that I was selfishly just, 'Oh, I can't do this. This is not coming to fruition, and another year goes by,' that on my head, the fact that I was able to then take that with  the coaching through 'SULU'.

That's what the transformation really looked like at the end of the day as to where I was able to free up time to grow my business, to get back on track with sort of my overall goals that I put in my head.

Heather Sager  29:06 
Okay, it's so funny that we talked about this piece. Nowhere in my program, do I teach anyone how to quote-unquote, launch a group program or a course but his is one of the beautiful outcomes that so many of my students have come through, have had this idea and for some reason, the thing keeping them from launching the group program has been in our heads.

We think we need to build something, but really, we're way over complicating it, which is ironic. You and I were talking about this before we went live in a different realm. This idea of it can be really, really simple. I think the missing link for you was understanding your framework. Can you explain when you're saying framework, it's a buzz word a lot of people say? Can you explain when you came into program, your awareness of having frameworks, whether that existed for you or how that came about and more importantly how you use the teaching to create one for yourself?

Milan Kowalewski  30:03 
Awareness wise, I think probably, maybe subconsciously, I was aware. I mean, obviously, I've heard the word framework and what that means but I didn't realize the extent of it, meaning I listened to a lot of podcasts. When people are doing podcasts interviews, and they're having guests, I mean, 9 times out of 10, the guest is talking about a framework.

I didn't realize at the time that that's what it was. I couldn't hone in and recognize that. That's what it was. I thought it was just a steps or processes, and that is sort of what a framework is.

On the same note, to me, when I was putting this together, I guess what I realized more is that, it kind of like how you describe what you were talking about too, of this accordion effect with your signature talk and being able to walk people through and expand that and contrast it, that the idea of creating this framework is really to give people a sense of what my business is about and what I bring to the table and the transformation I can achieve.

When it comes to actually working with people, one on one, going deeper into that, expanding that accordion. Going deeper into, okay, this is how it's done through this framework.

Heather Sager  31:20 
Yes, so you can do a lot of different kinds of frameworks. Inside the program, we talked about persona frameworks. How do you help your audience identify in different categories? We talk about process frameworks, right, the step by step? And then this one we're talking about here is more like a signature framework, meaning how do you take people from where they are to where they want to end up the transformation, if you will.

For you, I know that was a big lightbulb moment of you going, 'huh!' All your one on one work while it's been custom, I'm going to loosely use the word custom because I think a lot of us think like, oh, everything we do is kind of custom but if we're going to boil it down, all of us have a process we follow, we're just scared to put a label on it, because we think it's going to box us in and not be able to serve our clients. Can you talk about that light bulb switch, when you realize that you actually did have a process and you were able to put a label on?

Milan Kowalewski  32:15 
Yeah, that's a hard one.

Heather Sager  32:21 
Here's the thing, also very true because I don't want people to give this impression that, 'Oh, these are lightbulb moments that just all of the sudden it's clear.' It's messy. Unpacking the stuff for yourself and getting these ideas out on paper, it is messy until it's not, but it's your commitment to push through the messiness to get it organized, that's where people find success.

I think so much of so much of us are seeking the put a bow on a perfection after a 20 minute think session. That's not where it comes from, you got to like dig in the messiness sometimes for weeks in order to find those little packaged bows. If it's messy and hard to explain, that's okay because that's real.

Milan Kowalewski  33:03 
Yeah, well, so I'll give some context for your listeners. The framework that I was able to develop, which I now refer to as my conversion marketing framework, is really five steps, which is to position your business, develop your strategy, create your content, and of course, video is a big part of that, create your content, integrate your content into your marketing, and then measure your success.

Now, that sounds really simple. Yeah, if I showed you the pages of pages and pages of notes that I have of everything that goes involved, that's involved in that, I mean, it was almost it felt like it was endless, right.

As simple as that was to be able to come up with that and say, Okay, this is where everything is where all the boxes fall, and where all the Russian stacking dolls as you call them fall into place. To be able to categorize them and that, it took work.

And yeah, but I'm really happy I did it because now not only am I using this framework for my program, but you know, when I do podcast interviews, I use that accordion effect that we talked about. I take this  sliver of what it is so this way people actually get to know me for who I am and can start to get to know me I guess, for what I want to be known for.

Heather Sager  34:24 
Yeah, okay, you now have you have your quote-unquote signature talk, right? So which is all like the core ways that you talk about your businesses, your processes, in an inspiring way for people.

Think about life now for you versus six months ago, like where are you at now? How are you feeling about pitching yourself being on podcasts or showing up? You talked about your podcast. We will talk about that a little bit but what's been different for you?

Milan Kowalewski  34:50 
I think overall just the confidence of being able to pitch other people whether they're gonna say yes or no, and that's okay. However, that looks. I've actually had people come to me and asked me to be on their podcast, which was a huge surprise, as well because when that happens, it's just sort of a special moment.

Heather Sager  35:13 
like that feels good, especially when you're building a business that has visibility. When someone approaches you, ego aside, man, you got to have those moments. It feels good and I think we should celebrate that.

Milan Kowalewski  35:25 
I totally agree but the way I got there, though, I have to say this. The way I got there, was exuding what I was learning. Confidence was a part of it, but I think people can see it in your marketing. They can see that sort of transformation when you're making a transformation.

They can see when you're quote-unquote leveling up, as we talk about, you know.

Heather Sager  35:51 
It's the magnetism of growth. It is what it boils down to. Honestly, if I had to put a label on what this show and what I am about, when you are growing, there is this electricity within you that becomes, it's a pull for other people.

That's the magnetism we talk about on the show, is when you are continually growing, when you're leveling up your skills, in your life, and in your business, other people are drawn to that because let's be honest, other people want to level up too.

That's how you attract those kinds of people which you want people in your programs who also want to level up. People who are stale and stuck, those are not the people you want in your program.

When you do hit that, like switch to the light bulb and are like, Oh, man, I'm doing better and you start exuding that and even talk about it like there's something about you that changes and that I think is the secret for showing up.

I love that you just said that. You started showing up in that way. I've noticed you start to get a bit more sparkly too on your Instagram and on your IG stories.

Milan Kowalewski  36:50 
Just a little.

Heather Sager  36:55 
You've done quite a few podcast interviews in the last couple of months.

Milan Kowalewski  36:59 
Yeah. I mean, I have plans to do more, of course. It's a process. It wasn't a light switch that happened like this but over time, I've definitely seen the growth, for sure.

Heather Sager  37:15 
No, you go ahead.

Milan Kowalewski  37:20 
Something you mentioned in the program and this is just something very small. I won't be, not a huge spoiler alert here but the fact of the we have to leave our kingdom or queendom, right That really resonated with me as well.

Heather Sager  37:37 
Why don't you share a little bit about that? I talked about this specifically all into the podcast episode where I talk about pitching and getting yourself out there and why. I'll link to that below. I want to hear your take. Your translation of a Sager-ism.

Milan Kowalewski  37:51 
Sure, so I think it was more of an 'aha' moment for me of how I could grow because right now I'm not investing a lot in Facebook ads, or Instagram ads or anything like that. Everyone who's coming into my sort of orbit of my universe, is finding me through my podcast organically or through social media.

I never really thought that if I want to grow organically and sustainably, and attract people who are in my universe, so to speak, that another strategy would be to get out of my kingdom and go in and, you know, meet other people in theirs, whether that's on someone's YouTube program, on their podcast, wherever it might be.

What I realized, as I started to do more podcast episodes is my follower growth started to increase too. I don't have a huge following. I'm not gonna lie and say thousands and thousands of people but the couple 400 people I do have, I know that we are, you know, they're warm leads. They're not these cold traffic that I have no relationship with.

I speak to them almost on a daily basis. That sort of goes with this idea that, you know, follower growth doesn't doesn't matter. It's really those relationships that you have with people.

That growth, I wasn't able to accelerate it until I realized that hey, the way to accelerate it isn't through paying people to come and find you. I mean, there's a strategy to that and we can talk about that obviously, but it's to go into other people's worlds and help their communities out.

Heather Sager  39:35 
Yes, okay. I love love love, so this is exactly how I built my business. I think in this world of marketing that we're in right now where we're all being shown the flashy get there faster, build a seven figure business, build of this, build of that, it's like the monorail version of getting there faster.

I have to say i get shiny object syndrome excited about that, and then I have moments when I realized that it's okay to be in a journey of pursuing that. It is not okay to not be loving up on the people who are right in front of you and building your queendom or your kingdom. Appreciate what you have in front of you and get grassroots and find more people like you and are gonna circle in your world.

I think, an analogy I'll use, did you ever have this experience, this happened to me. I felt this way as a teenager. I was never the quote-unquote pretty girl or like the hot girl at a party.

You could always tell like, if you're talking to a guy, this is a weird scenario but we're going for this. You're talking to a guy and like you're, gushing about it but you can see out of the corner of their eyes that they're staring at the hot girl across the room, or like the hot guy across the room.

And you're like, ah, they're not present focus me like they're focused on who somebody cooler, who's somebody that they could go talk to. I think we've all had that experience, right? Maybe we've been the person having that side gaze, I don't know.

But the analogy here is, I think a lot of times we have been trained and marketed to always be looking at for the hotter girl or the hotter guy across the room, who's the next person? How going more or less bigger? How can we get better? How can we do those things? By using these strategies that honestly, might not be in alignment with who we are.

What I love to think about when I think about scaling and growing my business, I had to figure out a way to do it in a way that felt more genuine to me. Sure, I'm going to do the faster scaling at some point but this idea of going to the people, if you will, going as a guest in other people's platforms, teaching in other people shows, that feels more in alignment with attracting people who get my message and want to be around this kind of stuff.

So random, random tangent, but I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I think what would be different for us in our business if we allowed ourselves to slow down and truly built a community of people that worked without trying to chase the next thing. I don't know, does that resonate with you at all on?

Milan Kowalewski  41:48 
It 100% resonates with me. Oftentimes, I have an analogy to that I share with my clients. I call it my gum analogy. Sounds sexy, right? Because, you know, oftentimes when I meet clients, they just like expect the results just to happen. They're like, okay, I put something on social media. Now, why aren't the sales coming in? And I'm like, wait a minute, pump the brakes, pump the brakes. What are you talking about?

And I say, listen, I need you to think about this, like gum, okay? When you go to the grocery store and you pick up a pack of gum, or mints, or whatever it is, you're not really thinking about it, right? That decision of Oh, maybe my breath needs some freshening up. That happens in seconds. It's an impulse buy, right?

But the more expensive your services are, the longer that timeframe takes between when a prospect is interested in purchasing from you or not, right? And why is that? Why does that take so much time? It's because they haven't trusted you yet.

You know, we talked about this know, like and trust factor all the time in marketing. Your prospects need to know who you are first, like what you have to say and trust that you're the right fit for them. You haven't built that trust yet.

As it relates to what you were saying before about building up, you know, communities and whatnot, what we were just talking about is creating a documented strategy of how you're going to grow, of how you're going to bring people from that 'know' stage to the 'trust' stage. The fact of the matter is, is if your strategy isn't documented, you really just leaving success up to luck and chance.

Heather Sager  43:52 
Yes, and we got there from a stick of gum people. What else y'all know? I love a good analogy and I challenge you to do this all the time. But yes, yes, yes, yes. I think this is a really good reminder for us all to take a moment and say, are we honoring the journey of growing our businesses? Are we honoring the journey of our audience? Are we honoring, this is Brendon Burchard always says, 'honor the struggle.'

 The struggle of trying to get our ideas out of our mouth, struggle of trying to figure out what our message is, or struggle trying to figure out what our frameworks are. Are we looking for the shortcut? Or are we actually honoring the beautiful process that happens in growth? 

I think for anyone listening, Milan, do you have any advice for somebody who maybe was sitting where you were six months ago, going I feel like I've plateaued a bit. Business is good. I have some dreams and kind of figuring them out but I'm not really leveling up, if you will, at the rate that I know I need to be to get serious about my goals. What are some tips you might have for someone related to getting their message down? I don't know, getting themselves to the point of honoring that with that growth.

Milan Kowalewski  45:00 
Well, first off, I think we have to have awareness of that, right? If we're not aware that we've sort of hit that plateau point, we really have to do some soul searching. That's number one.

Number two, once you've had that, maybe this is the right time for you to invest in a program like this, maybe this isn't the right time. It doesn't matter. The fact is, you're going to have two choices, right? You can either level up on your own, which is totally an option. 

I think it's gonna look different for everyone. For some people who are very resourceful, maybe that is the option, maybe someone who was on a very tight budget, maybe that is the option, and that's totally fine as well.

But if you want fast acceleration, and you're willing to do the work and you're willing to put in the energy, then I would say this is just a no-brainer is to hire a coach to help you get there because that's someone who's already been there. They've gone through that journey, you know?

Heather Sager  45:57 
Yeah, I think it's identifying the what's the priority in your business right now? I think there's so many things we can work on, right? Are we going to figure out our funnel? Are we going to figure out our Facebook ads? Are we going to figure out our offer? Are we going to figure out our online program? Are we going to figure out our finances, right?

There's so many places that you can, you can point the laser, point your pen, right? You have to figure out which of those things is the priority. You have to understand where your voice fits into it, if getting your messaging down, if getting confident with articulating yourself, of getting your ideas out of your head in a way that makes sense for others, if that's something that is becoming a bottleneck for all those other things, well, then it makes sense of, oh, that's the thing I need to focus on.

But if you have a message down, right, and maybe your finances are a bigger priority, or getting your offer done is a bigger priority, like just stand behind your priority, and don't allow shiny object syndrome to be the determination of what quote-unquote course or program you spend money on. Just be clear on what you want, and then choose the skill to develop to help you get there.

Milan Kowalewski  47:03 
I think that's 100% dead on. Also what what is the goal? What is your goal in the next quarter? What is your goal in the next year? If that is to make a bigger impact in the world and in your business, if it is to feel more comfortable and confident about showing up on Instagram Live, Facebook Live, podcast, YouTube, wherever it might be, you know? Well, I'm going off on a tangent now. But my point is, if your goal is in alignment with it, that would be my tip, my advice.

Heather Sager  47:35 
Yeah. Okay, that's, that's beautiful. Hey, Milan, you have such good content and honestly, he produces phenomenal videos. Where can we chat with you and learn more about you?

Milan Kowalewski  47:45 
Oh, thank you, Heather. This very kind of you to say. Well, Instagram is my jam. My handle is @milanmarketingandmedia and you can find me there.

Heather Sager  47:54 
Perfect, and I'll link to it in the show notes. Be sure to screenshot this episode. Give Milan a shout out around your favorite little nugget that we mentioned on today's episode. Let's give him a lot of love.

Hey, Milan, before we wrap this up here, are there any other messages or thoughts that you would like to share with the audience related to what you've learned about marketing or what you've learned about yourself through your level up journey?

Milan Kowalewski  48:21 
Oh, gosh, down to one.  I'll just speak from my heart as to where this applies in my head. Communication, speaking as a whole, and marketing are like twinsies. They're one of the same, right?

I think overall, my biggest takeaway is it doesn't matter if I have the best content out there, if I can't articulate it in such a way where people are going to be connected to it, that I can help them, then it's just going to be lost. That's kind of sad to end it on that. I don't end up on that but you know what I'm saying.

Heather Sager  49:10 
I know what you're saying and I think that is from the heart. I think that's, we're gonna end up with that. I think it's beautiful. I think there's so many little tangible things people can run with today.

Just remember guys, your voice is your voice. It's an instrument just like anything else. It's a tool that you have in your toolbox, your marketing. Start paying attention to it and start using it so that you can communicate your message better and actually attract the people that you want to attract.

And hey, if you'd like some help on the journey, you know, I'd love to help you with that. I'll put a link into the show notes around a an upcoming training that I have that will help you do exactly just that. How do you use your voice to become an authority in your industry by getting better acquainted with your message and your voice? Check that link out in the show notes. And Milan, thanks for being here today.

Milan Kowalewski  49:52 
Thank you so much for having me, Heather. It was amazing.

Heather Sager  49:55 
Always a pleasure. And guys, we'll see you again on the next episode.

Hey Friends thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you liked what you had to hear and you're looking to make a bigger splash with your brand online, then you've got to check out my brand new free video training. You can get it over at heathersager.com/mini training, where I'm going to teach you the three speaking strategies that every online business owner needs for this virtual world here in 2020. Hint You don't have to be some big pro speaker to make speaking work for your business. Go grab it now, heathersager.com/mini training, and I'll see you on the next episode.