Keeping Promises: Our Experience with the #75HARD Challenge

What the heck is 75 Hard? Why did 2 moms + business owners with already busy schedules commit to making their lives intentionally harder? And what happened when we followed the program for 75 intense days?

This episode is for those feeling the need for a kick in the pants. Maybe you’ve been in a rut or are just craving a level up with your habits, health, productivity or mental resilience. I recently sat down with my friend, Frannie Wilson, co-founder of Ampersand Studios to talk about our individual experiences completing the 75 Hard challenge. 

Don’t worry, we’re not going to convince you to do the challenge yourself, unless you want to of course. Our hope is to inspire you to kick your excuses to the curb and start building trust with yourself in small ways that will have a bigger ripple effect than you can imagine.

DISCLAIMER: Frannie and I are NOT associated with the 75 Hard Program, Andy Frisella nor are we health, fitness or wellness coaches. Our conversation is simply our experience completing our interpretation of the program. You can learn more about it right here.

EPISODE  SHOW NOTES👇

➡️ https://heathersager.com/episode103/

Transcript

Frannie Wilson  0:00  
All of those things that 75 Hard makes you do, it's just forcing you to stick to it to make that commitment for just 75 days, see what happens, see what breakthroughs you have. Maybe you hate it, but I'm willing to guess you're gonna have some kind of breakthrough that makes you see things differently, or make a big decision in your life, or helps you to apply it to something else in your life. Because if anybody's actually making it this far, I think you're at the best part of this conversation. And it is not, I mean, yeah, that's awesome that you lost 17 pounds and that your ass looks great. But if you're listening to this, you realize that is absolutely not what we've gotten out of this. It's the total cherry on top and it's that mindset work that is what has been the most profound thing for me. The fitness part of it is a secondary benefit to this. It's that really just gaining power over your own time and your brain. That's where it’s at man.

Heather Sager  1:13  
Well, hey, friend, welcome to another episode of the Heather Sager show. It's me, Heather Sager and I'm honored to be your speaking coach here today in this episode. I've spent the last 15 years studying and building my communication skills to inspire and teach business owners and their teams from stages around the world. I've had the honor of speaking on more than a thousand stages on topics of leadership, premium brand positioning, sales, and of course communication. And now my focus is helping fellow online entrepreneurs become magnetic speakers, so they can make a bigger impact in the world, well growing their income. This show right here was designed to give you a dedicated space each and every week to grow your skills, and keep your big goals front and center. And if you liked today's episode, be sure to grab a screenshot and share it to Instagram and tag me @theheathersager so I can get you a shout out and celebrate the work you're doing. All right, let's dive in, friend. It's gonna be a good one. 

Well, Hey, friend, welcome back to another episode. Today, we're having a conversation with my friend, Frannie Wilson. We're talking today, a little bit about business, a lot about up leveling and definitely a heck of a lot about getting uncomfortable and growing as entrepreneurs, as moms, as women, as people. We're talking about leveling up. 

If you follow me online, you probably noticed this spring I was doing this pretty intense challenge called 75 Hard and Frannie was the one who actually inspired me to do it. Before you be like, nope, not for me. The goal of today's episode is not to convince you to do this challenge. I actually really don't encourage you to do it unless it speaks to you then I say go for it. But what we wanted to share with you is why we did it and some of the lessons we took away from it that have had a ripple effect in our businesses, in our relationships, in our own belief in ourselves, in our habits, in our tenacity. 

If you're the kind of person who maybe finds it challenging to stick with your habits or you have a list of things you'd like to do but never get around to them, maybe you kind of suck at keeping promises to yourself. I am raising my hand. That was totally me. We do a lot for other people, especially as entrepreneurs, as moms, as partners. We put other people's priorities before ours and there's that really common saying or expression around if you want to better serve others you have to pour from a full cup. Yet this whole idea of the overly Instagram version of self care, it is just never really was the thing that resonated with me, #bubblebaths. No, thank you. But I knew that I needed to do some things to be able to show up in a better way especially after the last year with the pandemic, with zoom kindergarten, with hello, I teach people to teach on stages and stages went away, but here we are, talking about pivot. 

Anyways, today we're going to talk about why both Frannie did the challenge, I did the challenge, but more importantly what we gained from it. Hopefully to inspire you to reconnect with the version of yourself that you know is in there that you've been fighting to let loose. So if you have been hungry for leveling up, whether it's your habits, or your morning routine, or your health or there's just something that has been often you've been feeling like you're in a funk, this episode is for you. 

Again, it's not to try to convince you to do this challenge. We do not recommend it unless it speaks to you, of course. The goal of this episode is to inspire you to reach for whatever next level for yourself is, maybe that's taken a morning walk, maybe that's reminding you to drink your water, maybe that's reminding you to take back control of your health or let go of something in your business you don't need to actually be doing, whatever that looks like. I hope that whatever it is your heart needs you get from it today and enjoy just a fun an open conversation between two gals chatting about life and business. Just imagine you're sitting around zoom chat with us. I hope you enjoy. I'll see you on the other side.

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I am super excited for this conversation today. Welcome, welcome officially to the show, my dear.

Frannie Wilson  6:31  
Thank you so much, Heather. I dreamt of being on your podcast and I never would have ever thought we'd be talking about this.

Heather Sager  6:39  
Well, let's be full stop, like real on this. We're here today because you were gutsy and I was asking some questions in my stories around, hey, guys, I'm gonna do a podcast episode talking about like my experience on 75 Hard and this crazy thing I'm doing, what should I talk about, and what did you say? 

Frannie Wilson  7:01  
I said, why don't you have me on your podcast and we can talk about it together. 

Heather Sager  7:05  
I mean, we talked about how people overcomplicate pitching all the time. Let's talk about that. Frannie just like saw me and said I can help you with that. Let's make this a conversation which sounded way more fun than me rambling for 45 minutes about this crazy adventure I did this spring but I attribute it all back to you, my dear, so we're gonna get into that today. But why don't you real quick, let's just introduce people who you are and what you do.

Frannie Wilson  7:33  
Okay, great. Yeah, I know, it's funny. I just put it in the little question box. Totally the easiest pitch ever, right? I'll do those kinds of things more often. So I'm Frannie Wilson, I'm the co-owner of Ampersand studios. We're a branding photography studio here in Boise, Idaho. We work with small business owners and we help them create content for their social media and online marketing. We also teach business owners how to do exactly what we do. So we coach them through a brainstorming process which helps them come up with lots of ideas for their business and then we teach them how to actually use their phone and inexpensive tools to create more professional looking content. So you can hire us to do it or you can have us teach you how we would do it if we were doing it. 

Heather Sager  8:17  
I love it. You guys have such a fun brand. I am obsessed with the reels that you guys have created. Also, very envious because again up to date this is airing in June or July of 2021. I still don't have reels y'all. I don't understand it but that's another story for another day. 

Frannie Wilson  8:36  
I don't get that either. That's awful. 

Heather Sager  8:40  
I'm fine with it. 

Frannie Wilson  8:41  
Start over, erase your Instagram. Start over.

Heather Sager  8:43  
Permission to not do it. You guys are fully yourself on camera and you just a really, really great example of showing up fully online authentically. I love everything about your brand. If you aren't following, we're gonna link to ampersand studios in the show notes. You're one of my favorite accounts to follow.

Frannie Wilson  9:03  
Oh my gosh, wow. Thank you so much. That means so much. I'm definitely hearing the compliment behind that. It's like, when people are like, you're so fully authentic and so full of yourself, on your reels. Sometimes I'm like, oh, this is so cringy like, I don't want to post it but I'm just gonna send it because you know, that's what it's about and reels are so much fun. 

Heather Sager  9:29  
And not to go off on a random tangent, but the thing that made, I'm going to go off on all of the tangents y'all but this is a new conversation. You guys did this thing called like Brand Camp. 

Frannie Wilson  9:40  
Yep.

Heather Sager  9:41  
Within the last couple months for you fully committed to this idea of like childhood summer camp was your theme for a launch and the way you all showed up fully committed to this theme which could have been really cheesy, oh my gosh, it was so awesome. I was living vicariously through that.

Frannie Wilson  10:00  
Thank you. Yeah, we had so much fun with that and we'll launch it again soon. In fact, our struggle is like, we want to do it again like we want to completely redo all of that, but our coaches never be like, no, we don't redo it.

Heather Sager  10:15  
But we're like no, we're gonna go out on like a lake and we're gonna get a canoe on a lake and we're gonna like photoshoots and everything like a canoe and cabin. I try digress, but okay, this sets up pretty well. So you guys have a rockin brand online. It seems like online, right, we bring our little best version to the Internet of what we show in our feeds and you guys are rocking it. And it is one of those things that it surprised me when I saw in your, I don't know if it was in your Instagram feed, your personal Instagram feed or stories a couple months ago, how you had done this challenge, 75 Hard which shocked me because I had seen other people do the challenge but to be perfectly blunt. It was like, bro, guys, dudes, with this like crazy skull and crossbones. It's like the coloring and branding of the challenge was like super off putting. 

I mean, here's the thing, guys. We talked about this, I hate bro marketing and I hate just like the very testosterone driven brands. It's just, I have lady bits. I have no interest in that. I had mad respect. I follow some incredible men, personal development trainers. It's just, I want to see more women doing things and when I saw that challenge, I was like, oh, that's crazy but no, not for me. And then here you pop in with this post and I'm like, holy shi, Frannie. This beast of a thing, like what's happening? 

So that's what we're talking about today is this crazy challenge. Frannie did it. She inspired me to do it. It's called 75 Hard. We're going to talk about what it is. And no, we're not saying that y'all should do it. However, we want to share our lessons learned because I think some intention and discipline added into each of our lives can have a ripple effect that you never saw coming and that's what we're going to share today. 

So Frannie, I'm going to pass the mic to you. Will you talk a little bit about what is the 75 Hard challenge? I have the list up here so I can pull the task if need to. But what is it and then I want to understand like what the heck motivated you to do this in the first place?

Frannie Wilson  12:27  
Okay, first of all, I am the farthest thing from like a fitness professional, or nutritionist, or dietitian, or coach, or trainer, or anything like that.

Heather Sager  12:39  
So this is the disclaimer, when we tell you we are not fitness professionals, nutritionists, doctors, blah, blah, blah. We're not making any recommendations today We're just two business owners shooting this shit, talking about a program we did and you do what you do, what you want to do. 

Frannie Wilson  12:54  
Perfect. That sounds great. I'm going to follow that up with in to me in my mind 75 Hard is also the farthest thing from a fitness challenge. It's not an exercise program. There's no meal plan, there's nobody telling you what to do, or eat, or how to work out. It's completely self-guided, self-led and my favorite part about it is your self-accountable too. There's no like Facebook group or anybody you're paying money to like check it on you or anything like that.

Heather Sager  13:32  
Side note, there are Facebook groups. I found a ton of them sure, but they're like peer monitored and have like peer police of people making up rules and all this crazy. Side note, like, if you want some people watching that might be a fun time. 

Frannie Wilson  13:47  
No, everybody has their own way of going through 75 Hard and people like doing it with friends, people like doing it with their spouses. For me, it had to be just me and I would recommend doing it yourself or if you do it with a spouse or something like, if you ever decide to do it again later. Try it on your own and I would advise against going into Facebook groups like that because it just really need to be in your own head with this I think. That's my experience with it.

Heather Sager  14:18  
So 75 Hard for sure is like your own journey. It's a mental toughness challenge. It was started by, what's his name? 

Frannie Wilson  14:27  
Oh yeah, the what it is thing? Andy Frisella started it. And basically, you have this checklist of things you have to do every day in order to be able to say that you completed 75 Hard, total honor system. But if you don't do something, you're supposed to start over at day one, no matter how far you get. So there's no cheat days, there's no breaking the system, no accidentally missing one of the things. Those things are you pick a diet and stick to it, whatever that is for you. If you want to cut things out, if you want to eat clean, if you want to do a certain meal plan, that's fine. You have to work out twice a day for 45 minutes each. They cannot be consecutive, one has to be outdoors. You have to drink a gallon of water a day. You have to take a photo every day and have to read 10 pages of a self-help personal development or nonfiction book, something that is educating you in some way. Did I get them all?

Heather Sager  15:19  
You got them all, you got them all. What I find really fascinating and so we hear this and you hear all those tasks, right? Drink water, workout, take a progress picture, follow a diet, outside of the reading the 10 pages every day. It feels like oh my gosh, this is like totally a fitness challenge. But as you said before, it's not. 

What I find, I want to hear your definition of mental toughness and how you take it. But Andy defines this as a mental toughness challenge and what I find really fascinating when he talks about it. One of the motivators of why he started the program was he interviewed former Navy SEAL, David Goggins. I'm pretty sure it was David Goggins that he interviewed. He talks about it and then he references David Goggins' books but anyways, he talks about how he interviewed this guy who did like all these crazy things, ran these ultra marathons, injured, trained for all of his life. And he wanted to understand like, what the heck was it that allowed you to continually beat all the odds, beat the whatever like your times or whatever milestones he set, like physically, how is he able to maintain this. And the response was, it has nothing to do with physical and everything to do with the mental, it's like our bodies won't give out, it's our minds that give out first. 

What you have to do is intentionally put yourself in challenging situations, in order to keep going. You have to train in the toughest situations if you want to be able to show up in everyday situations and do things like maintain your habits and do what you said and wake up when you said you wanted to wake up and not put Twinkies in your mouth or, you know, whatever it is that we're struggling with. It's really all a mind game. So Andy started it with this idea around how do I, I don't remember what he was trying to do, honestly, or we both talked about this. We don't follow the guy who started the program nor do we like go through any of this content but we loved what he created of what it did for us.

Frannie Wilson  17:18  
Well, because for me, I was just like you I was inspired by a friend who did it. And it wasn't like, I found Andy Frisella and then decided to do this. It's guerilla marketing at its greatest. So all these people are coming back in and listening to his podcast and then like, come back to him so like, what a great thing he's created that's completely free marketing strategy. 

But I wanted to really click back to something you just said was, which was waking up when you say you're going to wake up, doing the things you say you're going to do and that is my biggest takeaway from 75 Hard is just making a commitment to myself and then actually proving to myself that I respect myself enough to actually follow through with the things I'm going to do because I, you know, you told me to be here at this time, certain time today and I'm going to be there for that. I'm not going to bail on you, I'm not going to bail on a client, I'm not going to be on a friend but we bail on ourselves all the time. 

So I think when you set a goal like 75 Hard and you say this is a non-negotiable, this is happening every single day and I tell everybody around me. I tell my husband, I tell my co workers and my clients and everything, like I have to work out twice a day. So whenever that's going to happen, it is a non negotiable. It is happening, no matter what. It doesn't matter if it happens at 11 o'clock at night or in the middle of the afternoon. There is the time if we prioritize things, right? And following through on that promise to yourself is really, really powerful and especially if you can stick with it for 75 days. For some reason 75 days sound is like the sweet spot because it sounds like a lot of days. In my mind, it sounds like more than 90 days because everything's in 90 day time but 90 days is no more than 70. Is that the same for you?

Heather Sager  18:59  
The specificity of the number and the uniqueness of the number I think. It sounds like an eternity and it's like the shortest amount of time in the grandeur of our lives. It's like, oh my gosh, it went forever and it went for like no moments. The time thing I want to talk about that a little bit more too. But I'm curious, so what was the motivator? Why did you say okay, so you hear this again, right? Follow a diet. It has to be a clean diet, no cheat meals, no desserts like none of that. You have to work out twice a day at least 45 minutes each nonconsecutive, one of them has to be outdoors regardless of the weather. You have to drink a gallon of water a day, read 10 pages from a nonfiction book, take a progress picture every single day. You hear that list, right? When I saw that first list or anybody who's watched me on stories over the last few months they see that list.. They're like, Oh, hail to the no, like that list seems like why on earth? So what was the motivator for you of why you said yes to this challenge? 

Frannie Wilson  20:15  
Okay. Short answer. So I had heard about this challenge probably two years ago. A friend of mine, Eric Rhodes. He's a DJ, He used to be in the wedding industry and he's a wedding DJ. He had done it, two years ago. And that was my response, I was like, screw that. Why would you do that? No way. And then now he did it again right before I decided to do it again, right before I started to do it the first time. So another couple years went by, he decided to do it again. He posted about his results he posted about his mindset shifts and everything on Facebook. And for some reason, I received it completely differently that second time that I had heard about it. The first time, if I would have tried to do it then, I wouldn't have made it through because I would have already gone into it with that mindset of, no way. There's no way I can do this. 

The second time, I said, I am doing that. That was my attitude toward it. Everybody that told me I thought I was crazy. My own business partner was like, we are so busy. I almost felt like guilty doing it because it was gonna take away time for my business and it doesn't. It took away time from like scrolling Instagram at the end of the night or whatever. I had way more clarity, had way more energy. My business totally flourish during it. I had work traveling happening in the middle of it. I did it in the middle of the winter which in Idaho is pretty intense. I did it. It gets dark at four o'clock at night so I did a lot of workouts in the dark in the snow, in the rain. I actually loved that about it. I loved the added challenge of the bad weather because every time I had to go out in the bad weather, I just told myself, this is what this is about. I don't want this to be a walk in the park with the little birds chirping in the spring time which no matter what time of year you do, it's hard but I like to add a challenge because I don't know, maybe I'm just cynical, I don't know. 

Heather Sager  22:12  
It is like in that moment when you're doing something really hard, you have this awareness and this reverence for like I'm doing this work which makes you feel like a beast mode. But then you're also going like I'm training for stuff that's going to come up when I'm not going to feel like it later. I'm trying out so that I show up as a better version of me to push through those moments when easy to get out of it. 

Yeah, I love that you said that, you said that the timing of it, right, was you heard it the first time and it was like, no way. But when it came back around for some reason, whatever was happening on your life, you were really open to it and it was like a total hell yes. I think that happens a lot for people where, you know, people I hate the excuse when someone like rolls their eyes at content of some sort they're like, oh, I already know that. I've already heard that before. It doesn't make the content irrelevant, it just means it maybe isn't relevant right now for you. But you could hear that same piece of content or that same like old saying or old school quote on stage at a conference and for some reason, it's like earth shattering which is speaking to your soul.

Frannie Wilson  23:22  
Totally, I mean, that happens to me every day. And it isn't always the right time for everybody to do something like this. It doesn't mean that you're not mentally tough. It doesn't mean that you're not, you know, have a good mindset or something. It's just, I decided to do it and then I set my mind to it and it's been so life changing. And the coolest part about it was I kinda was like, maybe I won't document the process, maybe I won't post about it on Instagram. I'm not super comfortable, like sharing about fitness stuff because I'm not a fitness professional and I don't want to come off like that and so I like to try to stay in my lane. But I was like, no, it was somebody else that posted about this that inspired me to do it so that was my reason for wanting to share the process. And I didn't post everyday but I would check in and say like, hey, I'm still doing this. I'm still trying to learn how to do a pull up like that was one of my main fitness goals which I'm still on that train. That one, that's my like, you know, I'll talk about that a whole another episode. But the whole thing about time I like the quote like if you don't, I don't even know if this is a quote or if I invented it, but if you don't have time at least you have excuses. And that is oh, I was listening to the One Thing, right. 

Heather Sager  24:50  
I love that book. 

Frannie Wilson  24:51  
And one of the things he says in that book is that if you don't prioritize your life, someone else will and as business owners, if that's not the most true thing ever, like, I don't know what is because we can just keep on working. We can just keep with the email inbox and all the things and never stop and never take the time for the things that we want to do ad whatever it is that we're doing in the moment is what our priority is. So once I made like, realize all that stuff, it's exactly what you said, all of these things can be told to us a million, a million times, and that one time you hear it, it clicks and it changes something. That's definitely what this was for me. And like I said to Nicole, my business partner, at first, she was kind of like, oh, geez, what are you doing? You know, but she's doing it right now. She's on day 22. So I'm proud of her and, 

Heather Sager  25:37  
Shout out to Nicole. Good job, girl. That's so great. So okay, you mentioned how you shared a little bit on your journey and then I saw your post about it. Here's one things. Our minds are open and we notice things when it's that perfect time and we need to know this. Blinders on, right? 

I hadn't seen any of these posts of you doing the program or I had and it just had been one of those things that didn't register until I was sitting. I remember, literally, exactly where I was sitting. I was sitting here in my office on a Saturday. It was a Saturday morning and the kids happened to be up at my sister's house for the weekend, so my husband and I were like free for the weekend. I had the Saturday morning where I can get some things done and I just checked my Instagram. I was planning out some things for the week and I saw your Instagram Live that you posted on your IGTV where you were talking about your 75 Hard results. And you started talking, I saw your picture like your side by side of 75 days and I was like, Damn girl, holy cow. 

And then I heard you talking about this idea where you just felt so in control of your time, that you were honoring commitments for yourself and this transformation that you had was so, it was such a mental transformation in such a short amount of time. I remember watching I was like, Frannie, did this? Like what? Not that I didn't believe that you could but like you didn't look like the picture in my head of like the souped up whatever. Again, skull and crossbones is like the whole branding around this or like, skull or I don't know. Anyways, you follow me? 

So I remember that and then I was thinking like, what is this? So I go down the internet rabbit hole, I'm supposed to be working. But I'm like googling the program. I land on the guy's website and land on the podcast. I binge that podcast that day. And I remember I went to bed and I woke up the next morning. I'm like, I'm doing this. It was Sunday. I'm doing this. So what do I have to do to get ready for it? So my husband and I had to drive an hour to go get my kids. And I remember I took a blank notebook with me in the car. I'm sitting in the passenger seat. And I tell my husband like so I'm going to start this really crazy thing tomorrow and it's going to require some like adaptability on your part and I tell him what it is. And he's like, awesome, go for it. 

My husband is like super into fitness and he's been waiting for me to get excited about this for a long time. So I start like planning out my meals for the week, figuring it all out, and so I heard it made the decision and then without really knowing all of the details started the next day. It was like within 24 hours, I was like starting 75 Hard. 

It was the thing that stood out to me and for anyone listening right now I want you to think about where you're at. You can evaluate whether or not this is actually a good fit for you. The tasks on 75 Hard most of them were not new to me. The idea of drinking water, check. I know I'm supposed to drink water. Have I ever drank a gallon of water? Probably not. But I knew water drinking was something that was inconsistent with. I'm a huge reader but I will go weeks sometimes without opening up a real book. Sometimes months of real book, I'll use audiobooks and the whole thing on this challenge is you have to read a physical book. Things like following the diet. Oh my gosh, I'm super inconsistent. I snack all the time as my kids' food. I always put myself last. Things about working out. Again, I'll go and sprint. So I'll be really good for a few months and then I'll fall off the train. 

All these things I've dabbled with, but I have exactly what you said always prioritize other things when life gets hard or my kids need something or schedules or whatever. I was realizing that I was totally taking the out every opportunity life got hard. And let's be honest, the last 18 months has been really freakin hard. Last summer, I worked my tail off to get a routine and then boom, Zoom kindergarten. And I went into like a pretty dark depression in the fall which I had been trying to like claw my way out of for months. And so for me, this was like a door was open for me to like sprint through into change that I had been craving, but hadn't willed myself into making yet.

Frannie Wilson  29:56  
It's the craving thing. When you're craving it and something like this present itself, you're like, yes, that's, I need that, and that's exactly how I felt. Yeah. And also, when you told your husband, I'm doing this, I'm gonna need you to, you know, I don't need you to do anything other than not get in my way and is that too. It's that certainty and you didn't say I'm kind of thinking about doing this challenge, is this is this? No, like, the best thing about 75 Hard is how cut and dry it is. So it's all or nothing or start over from day one which is fine if you need to start over from day one. That's why when people decide to do it, they jumped in right away because you don't want to like, you can think about it and then start on Thursday because on Thursday, you're gonna be like, dang, I could already be three days in. I lost a couple days. 

Heather Sager  30:56  
You have to jump in, you have to jump in fast. I think this is the mistake I see people make which by the way, I'm in a couple of Facebook groups because I am kind of curious. I'm curious what other people are doing. But for me, it was really reflective to go, man, there's a lot of people that join and actually wait. They plan their start date. They plan. I'm gonna start in three weeks after whatever this holiday or after this, and

Frannie Wilson  31:18  
See I made a judgey face and I don't mean to do that but it's just that doesn't work for me. 

Heather Sager  31:23  
So let's just think about this. How many times in our lives I mean, as business owners as people, like, do we put a date out in the future and then psych ourselves out or whatever. If we put it out in the future, we always give ourselves permission to kick the can further down the road. 

Frannie Wilson  31:41  
Yeah, I always say I'm not a procrastinator. I'm deadline driven. I mean, yeah, if you have an idea and you have inspiration to do something and you don't immediately act on it. I mean, you might as well just, you know, put it on that someday to do list or whatever.

Heather Sager  31:56  
It's not perfect. It's not going to be perfect at all so you just have to get started with it. Yeah, that was big for me. I'm curious for you. Out of the tasks every day, were there ones that were particularly difficult for you. What was your kryptonite? Which one of those tasks was the hardest? 

Frannie Wilson  32:15  
The photo, the taking the photo everyday was the hardest. 

Heather Sager  32:19  
Why was that? 

Frannie Wilson  32:20  
Because it felt like a silly, dumb thing and I didn't understand it. I thought I can take a photo once a week or whatever. I would check all the things off, I'd sit in bed and read and close my eyes, and then go crap, I forgot the photo. The first day that I started 75 Hard, I did the photo right before bed because I almost forgot it. So then I felt like I had to do the photo right before bed for the whole thing, which that's just my stupid brain, you know? Because it's like, our bodies are different in the morning versus the night and I didn't want my day one photo to be that different from a day two photo just because of the time of day. So I talked myself into committing to the nighttime photo for the rest of the challenge. And it became the hardest thing for me but it became the most valuable thing too, because it's, have you read the Compound Effect?

Heather Sager  33:17  
No, I haven't read that one. 

Frannie Wilson  33:19  
Ah, read it. Okay, that one's going on my list. 

Okay, I actually think anybody considering 75 Hard or if you need a book idea to read when you start 75 hard, it's amazing. The idea of Darren, little Darren Hardy, I think, cut that out if that's wrong.

Heather Sager  33:36  
Yeah. I wont cut it out. We'll just find the book and link in the show now to make it easy.

Frannie Wilson  33:43  
So the compound effect is a must read. It is basically the concept of even though I'm gonna give you the concept, still read the book because there's so many examples that will just hit home. The idea is that small changes day to day, you know, the idea of small habits that make up a bigger, larger result in the end. In the book, he gives an example of like two friends who are, I mean, I don't know if I'm going to watch this, but two friends who are like middle aged guys. They both weigh the same amount. One of them decides to make a very small change in his life and stop drinking, like drinks one less beer a day or something. I'm totally running story but

Heather Sager  34:20  
Paraphrasing, we're paraphrasing the story.

Frannie Wilson  34:22  
This is how it stayed with me, so that's how I'm going to give it back. One little change like that, I'm going to do this one thing every day, whatever. Other guy doesn't make any changes, doesn't consciously do anything, right? Over the years, like over like a week, they still look the same over a year. They're starting to look a little different. Over five years, now you've got this guy here and this guy way over here and they look completely different ad their health levels are completely different because of this one small change. 

So 75 Hard in the photos every day, day to day you don't feel like you're making progress. You don't see the changes in your body. You don't see the changes in your sleep from one day to the next, and your clarity and all of that stuff and your energy levels. But if you start logging things, just like, I don't know, in our businesses or anything else, whatever we track is what we're going to notice those changes in. When you compare day one  to day, like five, there's not really much change there. But when you compare day one to day 15, you're like, oh, like something small, there's a difference. And I would stare at the photos and go, I don't know what the difference is, I can't, if I look at just my shoulders and kind of look the same, I look at just my abs, they look the same, whatever, they couldn't figure it out. But there was something different, there was something changing. And then when you compare day one to day 75, it's like a completely different person. 

Even though that's not what it's about, I didn't feel like overweight or like I needed to lose a bunch of fat. I had no idea how much of a result I would have physically because I was already working out, like two days a week or whatever. But doing this and tracking that daily photo became so eye opening to me and just so profound, like I would just obsess over thinking about that. And so even though that was the hardest thing for me to actually do every day, I thought that was going to be the thing that was going to make me have to start over from day one. I thought I would forget a photo. I didn't. I got them all and I don't know I love that part of it.

Heather Sager  36:26  
Oh my gosh. Okay, that's so funny that you say that. The photo thing, I always did it somewhere in the middle of the day. So my routine, business owner, right? I work from home. I have kind of my own schedule so I got into a routine pretty well. But I would always, what was it? I would always do the photo before I took my shower. So some days I would shower in the afternoon. Some days I would shower in the morning, just depending on what I had that day but that was my routine as I tied it to another activity which was a shower. So that for me like, what was the hardest for me? You know, I think the photo was like, okay. 

Maybe this is the wrong thing to say for someone, but I'm going to say it. I didn't find any of the tasks particularly hard. I found each of the tasks, like each of the tasks for to like drink water, yeah. People were like, how the hell do you drink a gallon of water? Well, you break it down, right? So 128 ounces of water every single day, I measure my water bottle and then figure out how many of those do I need to have? And then I space it out and go, how many bottles do I need to have by noon so I'm not screwed at four o'clock. 

So for me, it's my brain works. And none of the tasks I felt particularly hard with or hard time doing, it was the combination of them. That's where it was difficult for me and what I find is, so I get my groove. What I'd have to do, I did two things. One, I'd figure out my schedule so I kind of tried things out a bit to see what worked and what didn't work. The big one for me is the workouts. I originally thought I would run because I had been a runner. I haven't run in years. I wanted to get back into it. The first I think two days I went out running in the morning and then realize like, Oh crap, my body is not going to be able to handle this and a second workout. So one of the things that I had to do, I am a person that I've always resisted yoga and walking and any kind of other what I would call like lazy workouts as like those aren't really workouts. 

Frannie Wilson  38:34  
They're not like high impact. 

Heather Sager  38:35  
Yeah, like I need sweat. I need cardio. I need weightlifting, I need something that's a workout to me. So I had to make a decision early on around looking at the long picture, right? Do I want like my ego feel good that I might work it out twice a day because that's what I defined it or do I need to stretch my definition of what a workout is and actually look at the long term and say, what's going to be sustainable for me and nourishing for my body so that I don't burn myself out? 

So I decided I'm like, I'm going to walk. I'm going to walk and I also realized that you know with two young kids at home, I can't go out and work out. I can't do all these things and just leave my kids at home and taking them with me was an option because they go at a snail's pace and we stop every three feet. So I'm like okay, I have to get up before everyone else gets up and I have to walk in the morning. So I started getting up at 5 or 5:30 and going for a walk every morning and at first I was like okay, this is kind of nice, but it's not really work out. But then I found a groove and so for me like figuring out a groove, the morning walk is now my life. It's wonderful. It's my daily workout. I have walked outside three miles a day, every day for the last now 90, I'm working on 90 days at the time of this airing. It's a non-negotiable for me, but I had to figure out where to put it in my day because it would have been very easy for me to go, I can't get a second workout and because I have kids, or because I have a business, or because of whatever else. So for me, it was the combination of activities that I found the most challenging. 

Frannie Wilson  40:07  
So the walk thing, I thought I was going to run too so I'm not a runner. I've never been a runner. I've always wished I was a runner. I have tried like these programs where they walk you through a running, you know, catch to 5k type thing like that. The longest I've ever been able to run without stopping is like a mile and a half. So I am not a runner and I've written really wanting to get my endurance up. I do boxing and I do mountain biking and all these things that I want my endurance, my cardio endurance to be better and I know that running is the key to that. So I decided to start running with 75 Hard and I use a whoop strap or an apple watch or whatever and track me, you know, how many miles per minutes or mile or whatever. 

Then I did a walk one day and I am an extremely fast walker, like anybody will tell you that about me even my friends. I don't notice it. We're walking from the car to somewhere and I'm walking like I work there, you know? And she walk so fast so I just went on a walk, brisk walk like I do. I went the same distance in 45 minutes that I did on my run. I was like, yeah, why would I run when I can, you know, take over the same amount of real state when I'm walking my normal walking pace. Yeah, and so I just had to do the walking too and so I always did a pretty intense workout once a day, whether it was boxing or working out weightlifting in my gym, in my home gym and a walk. I got real sick in my neighborhood. That's for sure. 

So I started trying to branch out and go into different neighborhoods and then I would just come to work and walk downtown around the blocks or whatever, like, go to an outdoor shopping center and walk around for 45 minutes, so try to get a change of scenery. But I will say and I think I can assume this about you too, those walks are where I had these, like creative downloads. I listened to one of your podcast episodes where you were, you've done a few of them where you're on your walks and you're just like, I got to turn on the microphone like, I didn't plan this. There's something in here that I need to get out, I need to say and just speak to my audience. I don't have a podcast, but I did that many times and I can relate to the frozen lips and the you know, not being able to speak because you're you're like, you're like you sound like a crazy drunk person, but not that you did but I know that.

Heather Sager  42:41  
I totally did and I talked about that so that came out on Memorial Day.

Frannie Wilson  42:45  
Yeah, that's the one and so I know how you feel, but I would get on my phone, I have my little gloves on. My fingers were frozen, I'd be like typing down my thoughts like, oh my gosh, I have, I just like, wrote my entire sales page for this next program that I just had having all these ideas rushing in. And it's like, they say that you get all your best ideas when you're like in the shower or your you get your best ideas when you're not, you don't have a task in front of you really and so that walking was really valuable to me, and my business, and my life because that's where all my best ideas came from. I have all these like audio notes and things on my phone that I'm like someday I need to go back through and like listen to all of that because there's good stuff there.

Heather Sager  43:25  
Good stuff there and also it's that the act of doing it right. I think this is one of the things that I see a lot of myself, that I hear a lot in my clients. As business owners we're running. We're constantly chasing, especially those, we have personal lives too, right? We have partners, we have spouses, we have kids, we have friends, we have families, like there's just a lot of things that demand our attention and what I find is when I get into my negative habit loop, what I find is when I'm feeling stressed, or overwhelmed, or out of control with whatever's going on, I need to unplug. And the way that I would unplug was by filling it with Netflix, social media or other things that they were making my brain not work, right. It was just like, oh, I just need to like veg out.

I didn't realize how often I was doing that until I gave myself the gift of space and that morning walk that was the domino thing. You know, I've talked about this before even last summer, I did a podcast around the Miracle Morning. I talked about like setting up a morning routine and how important that was and then I felt like a fraud hypocrite because six months later, I wasn't doing that, and all these things spin, right? 

We all go through these cycles and what I realized was so when I started 75 Hard I go you know what, I'm not going to build out this crazy morning routine for myself around doing all these things specifically because I don't know that I actually want to do all those things and then I need that right now at this present point in my life. So what I'm going to start with is I'm going to start with a walk. What I did on the walk was I made the choice. So in the challenge, you have to read 10 pages of nonfiction book a day from a physical book. I added the challenge myself to make sure that I was putting things in my ears every morning. So for me, I wear hearing aids and I just stream whatever's on my phone into my hearing aids, so I would listen to either a podcast or a book. And I specifically only listened to things that were personal development and like mindset focused, so that way every morning, I filled myself first. That sounded inappropriate. But you know what I mean, right, like filling my brain with good thoughts to then say, what domino effect could that have on the day? And now here I am almost 90 days later that I've now built out a pretty robust morning routine that does have a lot of things in it. But I did not start 75 Hard, I didn't start incorporating a lot of things like journaling and goal setting and visualization. I didn't start setting that up until month three, I just gave myself that space. So I'm curious, like, how did some of these things change your normal habits and how did they evolve over the course of the 75 days into now?

Frannie Wilson  46:17  
Well, I can you right now, you and me have completely different personalities. You are the high person likes that structure and that routine. I'm so not that person. So the fact that 75 Hard could have such an impact on two completely different personalities is really cool to chat with you about this because as you're saying all that I'm like, I would be the kind of person that would probably like, set up a daily morning routine and then fail on it like, yeah, the minute it didn't work out and what you said was powerful. It's because I don't want to do that. If I made the decision I really wanted to do it, I would make sure I did it just like 75 Hard, but I don't want to do that. I am a free bird. I do things kind of when I feel like doing them. And so with me, I did a workout whenever it worked that day. I didn't plan my meals for the week. This is probably the worst advice ever for people.

Heather Sager  47:17  
Oh my gosh, you're like totally epitomize the oppositeness of us, like for me everything was scheduled. Oh my gosh, this is so funny.

Frannie Wilson  47:23  
I mean, I made a decision of what my food was going to be and I went and stocked my house with the food and I got rid of the bad stuff which not all of it because let me tell you the goldfish, I freakin love goldfish. I have kids and there's always goldfish. The not eating the goldfish was very challenging because it was always right there in the pantry in a big containers. So but I did, you know, have the food available and easy to grab. I'm just such a quick like spontaneous like on the go person. I don't like cooking. I don't like meal prepping. I also don't like any of that. My husband owns a restaurant. He's an amazing cook and he loves to cook, thank God. But I swear if I were single, I would probably eat out every day for every meal. So I'm all about those, like pre-done hard boiled eggs from Costco and like anything that's just grab and go, built bars, all that stuff. That's what got me through. 

Where was I going with this? Oh, yeah, I'm not a routine person. Yeah, so I did not end up working out like getting up going on a walk first thing in each day. My schedule as well is like all over the place. One day, I'll have a photoshoot from eight to five. The next day, maybe I have like a call or meeting here and there. It's very sporadic. It's all over. There is never a week, some people will be like, oh, what day works best for you for you know, if we were to go mountain biking once a week or something? I'm like, no. It's like call me in the morning and say, are you free today? And I'll probably be like, yeah, let's go. So I'm a very spontaneous like, on yeah, on the edge of my seat kind of person. I like it like that but I stress people out that don't like that. 

Heather Sager  47:36 
Okay, so this is where I'm curious. This is so fascinating to me because we forget, right, that people are wired differently, different personalities, different styles and things and not one is better than the other. So like talking about polar extremes, like my life is, I'm not like a huge like, have to, no, I am. I totally am a planner but I'm not freaking out if the plan isn't followed. That's one of the things about me is like I create a plan because I feel like okay, at least I know what's coming and I assess the if something is gonna change. I have backup options, but I'm not like tied to the plan. My husband is tied to the plan, like that's our we have to figure that out. 

Frannie Wilson  49:45
Oh no, you're both like that. 

Heather Sager  49:46  
Well, he's not. Here's the thing. He's not the planner. I'm the planner. He just wants to know the plan so he can expect what to happen and then if it doesn't happen, he's like 

Frannie Wilson  49:58  
I'm more like him and here's the thing, I'm more like most of my friend's husbands, but so I appreciate that because my husband is not like, tell me the plan ever and that frustrates me. Like, I want to know what time we're supposed to be at your parents house on Saturday, you know?

Heather Sager  50:16  
I feel like those are like life things that are necessary.

Frannie Wilson  50:19  
Thank you. Yeah.

Heather Sager  50:20  
Okay, s. I'm curious now. Now we have two very different life personalities around like the planning, the spontaneity. We also both run businesses that are growing very quickly. You have clients, I have clients. We have digital things going on. Some of the questions I got when people were asking me when I was like, what questions do you have around this? They're like, how the heck are you able to do this with kids? How are you able to do all these frickin things on this list every day well showing up on social media and like growing the business like crazy, like that balance between the two. So for, like, I just want to hear your thoughts around this. I have my thoughts around it. But for somebody who's sitting here going, like, oh, there's no way to spend all this time doing all these personal development things or health things, and show up in all these ways for my business? How did you navigate that and how do you continue to navigate that? 

Frannie Wilson  51:12  
Well, I would challenge anybody who's saying that to go to that little setting in your phone and check how much time a day you're spending on social media. Just first of all, right? Let's see how much like time we have that we could be. I mean, I'm a social I mean, like I teach businesses how to be on social media. I'm not saying let's cut out social media. But there's a point where I mean, they make it. They have like really, really smart people making it. Super addicting for us for a reason. Yeah, there's like a threshold there. 

Also, I am really lucky, like not lucky. I'm privileged that I have older children. I don't have little toddlers. I have a oh my gosh, I have a son about to be 13 and then I have a seven year old. I don't have the like the kid attached to my leg all day long. My business partner, Nicole, on the other hand, has her hands full with a toddler. She has a seven year old and a two year old so it's a very different story for her. And she's been posting, if you don't follow her on Instagram, you should watch. She's doing yoga yesterday and her two year old is like literally crawling on her legs and like, you know, grabbing her toes with like his little tweezer toy.

Heather Sager  52:33  
If I'm doing yoga and I'm doing downward dog, they think like, oh, London Bridge is falling down. That's calling your mom. So they're doing like,

Frannie Wilson  52:41  
We all have different obstacles and I didn't have that, necessarily that obstacle. For me it was, I have one client that has me traveling a lot. I had a lot of traveling with them. When I'm on weeks where I'm on shoots with this client, it's wake up, there's a shoot all day long. We do photo selects right afterward. We have meetings, we have calls. It's nonstop. I had three of those trips during 75 Hard for a week long at a time. And the days when we're traveling and we're in airports and we're like, all these things, that was my big obstacle and that I didn't think I could do it. 

At first I was like, I'm gonna lie, I knew I was going to do it, I made the commitment to do it. But I had this little tiny, you know, doubt that I was probably going to have to start over at some point. I didn't know if I would make it all the way through to 75 days in one go which is fine. A lot of people get to Day 30 and then they have to start over. And you have to make you know, the plan doesn't always go as scheduled and if there would have been a day where it just couldn't happen, I would have been okay with that but I would have started over and kept going because I need to commitment to myself that I would finish one way or the other. And on those trips, here's the thing, just like you told her husband. I told these are my clients, these are my boss basically. 

I'm doing this so somewhere in the days, I'm going to leave and go for 45 minute walk. And then when we're done working at the end of the night, in my camera bag, I also packed a yoga mat and I had resistance bands and I packed a jump rope and that's all you need for 45 minute. I can't make myself sweat really hard in 45 minutes with the jump rope and some resistance bance. So I was doing that like in my bedroom in these AirBnB's. And it really became like you said it really wasn't that hard. 45 minutes goes by like nothing like they would say, oh, I can't believe you're gonna do that after this long day of work that we had. I would go do it and I come back out and they're still sitting on the couch, like chatting and they're like, oh, you're done already. I feel so great that I did that and I didn't sit out here on the couch. You know, even though it sounds nice to relax at the end of the day and have a drink with them but I couldn't do that either. And so,

Heather Sager  54:55  
Yeah, no alcohol. We forgot to mention that piece. There's no alcohol for for the entire thing like nada. 

Frannie Wilson  55:02  
Not a drop. And so yeah, I think everybody has obstacles. Well, how can you do this with kids? How can you do this while traveling? I have a trip coming up in the middle of it. There's always somebody that days is a long enough period of time to where there will always be something inconvenient in there. That's the whole point of it. The whole point of that is overcoming inconvenient things.

Heather Sager  55:19  
Yeah.

Frannie Wilson  55:20  
Non-negotiable. I'm doing this. It's super inconvenient. That's why he says you can't do the workouts back to back. You can't like run to the gym and then lift weights at the gym. He wants it to be really annoying and really inconvenient and that's what it teaches you.

Heather Sager  55:35  
The whole point, right, is because of course, when things are easy, of course, when they're convenient, of course, it's easy to do it. That's not what this is about. It's about making ourselves to things that we want to do but when we don't want us to really want to do them because there will be a time when that happens. 

It's funny that you brought up the travel thing. I kind of let myself off the hook earlier when I was like, oh, really wasn't that hard. It was hard, right? The whole thing was hard. But what I found for me was, I got lucky. And I will say this, I got really lucky. So I started on March 22. And for some reason here in the Pacific Northwest which is usually rain city all the time in Portland, we had a beautiful spring where the stars aligned and it only rained on me, I could probably count on my two hands for the entire time 75 Hard. It only rained on me, I mean, handful. I don't know how that was possible. The spring in the Pacific Northwest is usually really, what happened on the really rainy days, for some reason between 5 and 6:30am whenever I walk my walk, it was light. I just got really, really lucky on that until day 60. So for me, I'm like rounded out. 

For me, it was never an option whether or not I would finish the 75 days in one take. I didn't even dawn on me that I would fail. I'm like no, like I'm not going to. That wasn't even an option until day 60. I had a client who booked me for a speaking gig in Seattle. I remember like instantly saying yes, then going, oh my gosh so it required me to think. So normally, if I was going to Seattle, for me, Seattle is a few hours away from Portland. I can drive three something hours. I could take a train or I could fly on a 35 minute flight. I had to sit down and calculate the math to go driving, train or flying. Which of these things are going to allow me to be able to be at my best for the speaking gig, but also allow me to do other things? So for example, like I couldn't drive because that was going to take up way too much time in the car and if I'm drinking a gallon of water, I'm gonna have to figure out where to stop to pee every hour. That doesn't sound fun.

Frannie Wilson  57:52  
Oh, my gosh, I love you and that you thought of that. If this would be me, I'd be like, why not, it's just right there, and then, like crap that took an extra hour because of all this water, and then I'd get there and I'd be like,

Heather Sager  58:03  
Yeah, no. I totally thought, this is how I live. This I think, right? It's not all the time, right? But I think through different scenarios to go, what can go wrong? And how like, one of the questions you said is when people go like, how could you do that when you have x? My responses is yeah, how can you do that when you have x? We can answer our own questions. I think what we're easy to do is just dismiss the fact that something happens because we feel I can't picture it at first. But I think we're really resourceful and creative beings that when we ask yourself a question that we think is impossible, we can always figure it out. 

For me, I'm going alright, airports have bathrooms, I can load up on water. I start making the list of things, right? Okay, I can pack my meals. I emailed my client said, hey, what's the food situation because I'm going to be that super needy one that needs to eat a certain way. No problem. The hotel took care of it. They had a custom meal for me. I made my workout thing part of my presentation. Clarify, I didn't work out during my presentation. But I told the people on the crew, like, hey, I'm doing this crazy thing. They were all interested in it. And they knew I had to do a second workout at some point that afternoon. So they were like trying to figure out is it gonna be before dinner or after dinner? 

I just brought it into my world, like you I talked about it with my client and I talked about with the people I was serving. I just think if we were a little bit more open to figure out the how and be a little bit more creative, I think we can do a lot more of the things that we don't think we have time for. I just think we're unwilling to be creative with it or it's really not a priority and that's okay if it's not, but we can't have this false belief that like oh, like don't be a martyr and say you don't have time for something if you could actually make time.

Frannie Wilson  59:52  
Is it interesting how all those people rose to the occasion to help you like my colleagues that I was traveling with, my clients, one of them is the CEO of the company. She's the most amazing woman entrepreneur I've ever met in my life and she gets so much into every single day. We had a lot to do this day, and she was like, go on your walk, like, I am definitely not going to be the reason that you didn't finish this, or that you messed up on it, or that you had to start over. She's like, I am not. I can't handle that kind of pressure, like, I'm not going to be the reason you didn't do this. So go in, and we'll see you in 45 minutes. And I come back, and she has the most beautiful, massive salad that she made for me. 

People just support you. I mean, those are the people that you have in your life, you just reaffirm it when you do something like this because nobody in my life was like, I mean, some people on Instagram which whatever. They can think whatever they want were a little bit like, that's stupid. That's actually not good for you, judging me on that. I could never do that whatever, like, great. No, you couldn't because you are saying that so. But all the people in my actual circle close to me were championing me the whole time. And, you know, my husband was like, amazing and totally rosy. I can't imagine him trying to do it at the same time as me. That's why people who with their spouses I think is a whole added level of difficulty, especially when you have kids. But people really wanted to jump in and help and they wanted to know about it, like you said, so I think it's so contagious. 
I run into people now all the time that are like, hey, I'm on Day 45 of 75 Hard. Totally heard you talking about on Instagram, and I am like, I had no idea that you were inspired by me to do this. Here I am talking about it on your podcast, like what the heck? I think you probably experienced that too, right? Do people come out of the wood works and they're like, I'm on day whatever, like, holy cow, this is nuts. This is such a revolution. I don't know. That's great.

Heather Sager  1:01:57  
I think it's just a reminder that I think, one, like really, really clear thing that made it so clear. We're not recommending that. This is something everyone should do. You know if it's right for you. It's more of the idea around taking ownership of your time and taking ownership of the fact that we do make excuses. At any point in time, we can choose to stop making excuses. We could do whatever we want to do. It's just you have to determine whether or not it's something that you actually want to do and if it is a priority because I mean, doing these things, saying yes to these tasks every single day for 75 days and if y'all follow me on Instagram, you know, I took one day off and immediately went into the next phase of the program. So I'm going on day 90 of doing this with like, one off day where I had an ice cream cone and I didn't work out the second time. That was my off and I did everything else. But you have to say no to things in order to say yes to this. We all know that phrase like anytime you're saying yes, you're saying no to something else and vice versa. So I am curious, what did you have to say no to or what did you have to give up in order to make this like a new normal in your life?

Frannie Wilson  1:03:13  
The biggest lifestyle shift for me I think was harder for my family and friends. This is so sad to say. It was me not drinking alcohol. I'm a partier, man. Go me going to a barbecue and like not having a drink or not playing beer pong or whatever, like drinking game is at available is not normal for me. I was scared that I wouldn't be fun without alcohol. And it turns out, I'm still pretty fun and I can drive my friends around so they still like me to be there. And I can watch other people at ridiculous and not wake up feeling anxiety the next morning about what did I say, or do, or you know what's on video, you know?

I mean, I wasn't getting trashed every time I drink but like, I would have like really bad anxiety after I went out and had a couple drinks of like, what do they you know. All these choices I would make when I was drinking and not because you get drunk but because you just feel loose and you're kind of just we're in like party mode, you know? Yeah. And so that I think was really hard for me at first to turn down the alcohol and I hate when and I will never do this to somebody else again. I think I have done this to people in the past. But when you're at a party and it's like, hey, can I get you a drink? You're like, oh, no, I just have water. And then you're like, what? Come on like, yeah, leave it up, like just have a drink, whatever. And it's like this kind of pressure and shaming into drinking alcohol. I started getting really like, frustrated when people would do that to me. And finally, they would go away and I'll do 75 Hard then I'd have to go into this whole, like 75 Hard to chat. Sometimes I love talking about it but I didn't love having to defend it.

Heather Sager  1:05:17  
Yeah.

Frannie Wilson  1:05:18  
And so I started just bringing like, a soda cup with water and a lime with it. So nobody would bother me anymore. I got really good at drinking soda water with the lime in it. It fulfilled that like feeling like, I'm still having fun at a party because I have this cup in my hand. That was a really profound, like, mindset shift for me too and I did a lot of journaling about that because I was like, oh, it's just having the cup in my hand that I need. I don't need the actual alcohol. And maybe that's just one step closer to where I really want to be to where I can just own it and be like, I don't drink or whatever but I didn't want to have to defend it. I didn't wanna have to, like, go into the conversation with people, so that was huge. And now I will have a drink here and there at social events, but I don't passively drink anymore. I don't just like, you know, this one is empty and grab another one. So I think that's, I don't know what the question was like, what was the, I don't know, the hardest like thing I had to say no to. I think that for sure, would be it.

Heather Sager  1:06:25  
Yeah. Oh, my gosh, that's so good. Thank you so much for sharing that I think I can relate to that. I can relate to that in different ways. For me, I was totally doing the mom wine every night, right? Like the mommy juice, like my kids literally called wine, mommy juice which is probably a very terrible thing. 

Frannie Wilson  1:06:44  
No, I mean, I'm a beer girl. 

Heather Sager  1:06:46  
But yeah, it's just one of those things. For me, I relate with the whole social thing. Most people don't realize about me because I'm so forward and outspoken. Obviously I have a podcast and all these things on social, but I'm a really reserved person. I turn it on when it's my job. I turn it on when like I'm in that position. But normally, I'm pretty standoff-ish socially until I feel comfortable. And then I'm like, no problem opening up but alcohol would be that buffer for me. It would just make social settings a lot easier. I get social anxiety. 

For me, I haven't, I mean, we pretty much still, we're not in lockdown here in the northwest, but it's still really shut down and I work from home. We're still making friends in this new city we moved into and so I really haven't been in those social situations to test it out yet. But I will say like, I used to get headaches a lot. Well, girl share, I would always get headaches paired with that time of the month, and migraines. We're talking like headaches that would make me throw up. If I didn't catch them by a certain time, I would be down and it was really really consistent. So headaches were happening all the time and I would feel hangover after like one glass of wine. I would totally have that reserve headache. Just little things right about not feeling great. I was constantly bloated every single night after eating. It wasn't that I was eating unhealthy. We actually eat really clean in our house. We have our healthy family. Everyone thinks we're crazy. I cook pretty much everything from scratch. If we had all these things in and so for me what was fascinating was going through this like clean eating, I pretty much made most things from scratch, like I do the meal prep. I am that geek that will meal prep and all those things. 

But cutting out the alcohol, increasing the water and changing my food, I did not have any headaches during 75 Hard and I really haven't had any since. For me, I remember waking up but I'm like woah. I mean outside of like the hangover of not having sugar for the first two weeks. I felt so, so good. And one of the things, let me give this tangent real quick because I think maybe this will resonate with someone. Because I'm kind of a reserved person but also have a super outward personality, I go through this thing where I feel sometimes I'm like, am I faking it in social settings or in life? Am I going through the motions because I have this like Super Bowl personality, but then I also feel like I'm just on the outside of living. I'm gonna get emotional like talking about this. But I felt like there was something wrong with me socially or in life because I wasn't always fully engaged. That I had to feel like I did turn it on to totally get into a situation or get into just feeling really excited about living. I felt like it was things were just muted. Quite frankly, I'm sick of feeling frustrated or just things were muted. 

And so for me 75 Hard was this like time that was totally inward focused, though I mean, the outward thing, my ass is looking pretty damn good y'all. That's good too. But this like, full time of just sitting with my own thoughts through journaling, through the crazy ridiculous amount of reading that I did. It finally got me really present with where I was and how I was spending my time. And this morning, I went on my walk this morning, I woke up at 5:26, got on the road, little beat bop around my same morning trail. About four minutes into my walk this morning, I looked up and I saw the sun over this hill and I had the most cheesy personal development thought of all time and it was like, holy shit, I feel so good to be alive. 

That was my thought and then I started laughing to myself, like who am I? But I had this thought, like, I feel so happy. I feel alive and I feel free and I feel vibrant. I feel like this huge weight has been lifted. It sounds so freakin cheesy but I am so happy. It wasn't necessarily about the weight training or the losing. So I lost 17 pounds over the 75 days. I lost a ton of inches. I feel awesome. They're of course all the physical things. I'm like, hell yeah but I feel like a different person. For me, I'm like, yeah, there's no going back. So when people ask me, how long are you going to do this?I don't know about all of these specific tasks. But this baby, this is the new Heather and I love it and she's sticking around.

Frannie Wilson  1:11:27  
Oh, you had me like, my eyes are getting a little glassy too when you were telling that story. I totally know what you mean. I have slipped out in that a little bit and so thank you for that reminder to come back to that place. Because it is it's when you're on that walk and you see the, it is so cheesy. I know, it sounds so cliche, but that sun rise or whatever that you know you wouldn't have seen otherwise. You know you wouldn't have had that moment to stop and reflect and be grateful. So and here I go, okay, women, right? 

For me that it's, especially as mothers, I have a son, that's gonna be 13 in a couple of weeks. The realization that I only have a few more summers with him before he goes off to whatever he does, maybe he'll stay at home forever. I don't know but I feel like that time is just so fleeting. And when we do things in life, so unintentionally, you know, I just don't have that regret. I don't want to just keep, you know, going in the hamster wheel and not making intentional choices about how I spend my time because it just all of the sudden it's gone. All of those things that 75 Hard makes you do. It's just forcing you to stick to it to make that commitment for just 75 days, see what happens, see what breakthroughs you have, maybe you'll hate it. But I'm willing to guess you're gonna have some kind of breakthrough that makes you see things differently or make a big decision in your life or helps you to apply it to something else in your life. Because if anybody's actually making it this far, I think you're at the best part of this conversation. And it is not, I mean, yeah, that's awesome that you lost 17 pounds and that your ass looks great. But if you're listening to this, you realize that is absolutely not what we've gotten out of this. It's the total cherry on top and it's that mindset work. That is what has been the most profound thing for me. 

I only lost seven pounds. But if you look at those pictures that I posted, it looks like I lost 20 pounds, right? That's another thing I would recommend anybody to go and get a like a body scan workup done when you start. Find out what your body fat percentage is, find out what your muscle mass is, your water retention, all that stuff and look at those metrics at the end or maybe do a middle check in and then an end check in because that was really eye opening to me. The scale barely moved for me. I mean, I can fluctuate five pounds morning to night. The fact that I lost only five, seven pounds, doesn't sound like anything to me. But when I went in, they were like the guy was like, you have enough water for somebody twice your weight to like, live for like three days. And so if you wanted to, like do a bikini competition, you could drop 10 pounds of water weight, like in over a weekend or whatever. And I'm like, that's awesome because I was like, should I drink less water? No, it's great. Keep drinking the water. So the fitness part of it is so a secondary benefit to this. It's that really just gaining power over your own time and your brain. That's where it's at, man.

Heather Sager  1:14:59  
I love that. I think for me, the fitness thing, it was like I wanted to get back in shape. I've gone through like in shape, out of shape all the things. For me, it was the, I want to, how do I phrase this? I want to feel in control of my own body and feel like this is the one vessel we've all been given to live. I want to feel like I'm nourishing and taking care of it. I know we've all go through phases, right where I'm like, super sore over here or like my stomach is not feeling great or like women traditionally have like, big issues with their indigestion. For me, I was always reacting of going like, oh man, I have a headache, take some Tylenol or oh, what's going on? 

Here's what happened to me. The 75 hard challenge, I've learned to start listening to my body. Those who follow me on social media, you'll know around the Day 70 mark, I realized after listening to my body that oh my gosh, like I'm having huge issues with my core. Something is going on and I discovered that I had separated abs. Here it is three and a half years later after giving birth to my second baby. My ab separated. I thought they went back together. But they did not and I had to have like an evaluation done and I'm now I'm in rehab to get them fixed but I wouldn't notice that.

Frannie Wilson  1:16:20  
So you wouldn't had that isolated awareness? 

Heather Sager  1:16:24  
No, I was doing like a weight training program and kicking ass on it this whole time, right? But something was off and not working so I figured that out. W e also figured out some things going on with my stomach. I would not have known that and now I'm changing different eating habits. So for me, I started out with the plan on 75 Hard and I adapted my plan as I listen to my mind and my body and I kept nourishing it with whatever it needed. So if I needed to, if there was a certain thing that I was feeling I need to learn more about that was my next book. If there was like, for me, relationship books. I read a parenting book through it because I needed to learn a little bit better patience with my kids or having more have empathy for some things going on with my husband. I read a Brene Brown book. For me, you and I talked about this, I want to hear your take too.

But 75 hard was like a container that I got to fill it with what I needed. So it taught me to start going, what does my body need? What is my stomach need? What is my heart need? What is my head need? What was my soul need? I got to decide what my plan was and that's to me, what attracted me to 75 Hard because it wasn't prescriptive. It was just directive, if that makes sense. I knew that if I want to be successful at building a life that I love, that I felt vibrant in like I'm feeling now. I knew I had to create it and not someone else. That to me was the most powerful thing was going, I don't know what I'm doing in all these areas but I trust that I can figure it out and I'm not locked into anything.

Frannie Wilson  1:18:03  
Yeah, the books I read, I mean, what a roller coaster like scene. I read whatever kind of call to me at the moment. I was having new amazon books showing up like every day on my porch. My husband is like another book and like, yeah. I can't wait to finish this one to start that one. I'm not really a reader. I don't really sit down and read it. It actually puts me to sleep. Some days I was reading the minimum, like the 10 pages and at night, that was it. But again, with the reading is that compound effect too. It's like, you're like, oh, I barely made a dent in this book and then all of a sudden, it's like, that's why I love that compared to listening to audiobooks because you don't get that kind of you don't really know how far you are to where you can see four hours left or whatever. I really liked that tangible, being able to see how far I got with these books that I was reading. 

I brought a couple of the books that, well one of the books that I read, I never would have picked up this book. I actually just went to Barnes and Noble and kind of walked around. I found this book and like again, I don't know, maybe I shouldn't go there. But I want to share this book. Yeah, it's called the Righteous Mind. It's why good people are divided by politics and religion. This is so not something I normally would read. I mean, I'm super fascinated with psychology and this is a psychology book. It's by Jonathan Haidt. Anyway, I was feeling, I mean, I went through 75 Hard in the middle of this climate that we're in socially. I have a lot of people in my life that I love dearly that have completely opposite beliefs and in religion and politics and all the things, right. I didn't understand and I was struggling a lot with those thoughts and those feelings. I didn't understand, I was even questioning my own beliefs. I was like feeling really like this existential crisis, you know. 

So I started kind of, like wanting to learn more about that stuff. Normally, I think I would have just had these conversations with my husband, that he and I usually end up kind of agreeing on those things so those aren't necessarily the most productive conversations. We're not learning the other side of things. Reading this book, I recommend it to everybody no matter what side you think you're on. It was really eye opening to me and I read a parenting book too. I read, you know, some business books and some like books about negotiating and learn some really great tactics for sales and business and all kinds of different books. It was really fun because, like you said, it's just whatever your mind and your heart is calling for at the moment. Why do we need something like 75 Hard to make us do this, right? That's what I think about when you were saying all that. I'm like, why do I need that container as you called it, right?

Heather Sager  1:21:07  
Yeah. Is this like this constant list of things we know we should be doing that again, who says should? But we pile it on is like baggage of things. But yeah, it just all comes out. Okay, I have two thoughts and then we're gonna wrap this up. So thought number one I wanted to share is because as we're talking about a lot of these things, one of the things that I've also learned is, and I got this from Brene Brown. I read physical books and I did audiobooks. So in my 75 Hard thing, I think I ended up devouring about 21 or 22 books, collectively, like 8 physical books and then 13, I think, audiobooks. 

For me, that was huge, just like doing both of them constantly in three books at a time. Brene Brown, she said in one of the very first books I listened to. She talked about this idea around, we numb out, like what I was saying before around how we kind of numb out when we need to have that break, how a lot of people did numb out to TV. She had given us example of like, when you watch TV instead of just being like, oh, what am I going to flip on and watch tonight? She didn't use this analogy, but I will. Make it like a build up. If you were like, hey, I'm gonna have a steamy, sexy night and you were like racy texting, you're hubby all day to like lead up to it. Do it with Netflix. If you're going to sit down and watch the Blacklist, or How to Get Away with Murder, or whatever your show is, right? I'm really into Dynasty right now. Go Tuesday night, I am watching two episodes of Dynasty and I am so excited. Plan it and look forward to it and be intentional going, this is my self indulgent time. Hearing that and it took me a while, right? It took me weeks, weeks, weeks. 

But now I'm at the point where I don't really watch TV but when I do, I'm like, oh, I have three episodes waiting on my DVR for Grey's Anatomy. I know, it's like Friday night, I'm doing that. When I I planned with my son for my day off that we had out on Day 76. I'm like, we're going to Salt and Straw which is like the gourmet ice cream place in Portland. We've done that for like 35 days and my six year old was so excited. For me, it's not that I'm not going to do those things. I'm just not going to passively do them which makes them meaningless. I'm now going to like build it up and have a little of like foreplay and fully enjoy those moments. That to me was really, really empowering. I'm curious, did you have a similar effect with some of those like indulgent things?

Frannie Wilson  1:23:44  
 Totally. Brooke Castillo teaches on this too. Are you familiar with her podcast? 

Heather Sager  1:23:50  
I love her. 

Frannie Wilson  1:23:52  
One of the things that she said that clicked for me a long time ago. I mean, way before this 75 Hard. She coaches on mindset around weight loss. One time she said something like, people say like, oh, it's so hard to not indulge on the brownie or the cookie or whatever. She's like, it is not hard to not eat a cookie. It is actually physically more work to eat the cookie than it is to not eat the cookie, right? And that was like, when she said that, I was like, oh my gosh, it isn't hard to not do something, right? 

She teachers about intentionally planning, tomorrow night, I'm going to dinner, I'm going to have a glass of wine. Having that knowing I'm going to have a drink at this event or I'm going to watch the Netflix show, those things. We don't have to take all those things out of our lives. But yeah, it's the randomly picking up our phone and scrolling TikTok is like soul sucking. But saying, okay, I need some laughter and joy in my life. I'm going to like set aside some time for some TikTok after I finished this workout, whatever that is. That's a way healthier way to look at those things and not make ourselves feel guilty about doing them afterwards. 

So I love that, I love that teaching. And yeah, I just seem I would go on up on my walk and fill my ears with like Brooke Castillo or business podcasts or whatever. Actually though, I have shifted, I used to always listen to audiobooks for business books and I will ever do that again. After 75 Hard, I love all my business books physically sitting on the shelf that I can lend to a friend that I can highlight and dog ear and put post its in and I just love that tangibleness but I love that part of business books now. So I think I can listen to, I love listening to like, entertaining books on audio because they pick up good voices and stuff. But I love the self-help highlighting and all that work. Plus, most of them have like workbooks in them. I listen to the audiobook and then I'll end up ordering the book anyway so now I bought it twice.

Heather Sager  1:26:09  
Yep, I see. I do that. I'll listen to the audio. There are three of them. Seth Golden's, two of them were Seth Godin, like so good. I ordered the physical. I put it on my shelf because I'm like, I know, I'm going to come back and do the actual workbook stuff. It's funny how we do that. Okay, this is the pivot I want to make I want to end here because you and I, both business owners, especially in this online space with personal brands showing up online, I'm just curious, how has your journey on 75 Hard impacted your business and how you show up in business?

Frannie Wilson  1:26:43  
I'm trying to think of a way to say something that hasn't already been said because all of it. I mean, all that we've been talking about affects my business. It's that definitive decision making and commitment power that we have as business owners, and if we are sort of wishy washy, I don't know if I can do this, maybe I'll try this thing attitude. No, that's got it go. It's, hey, we're gonna do this. I'm gonna call I've always been like this, though. 

We're lucky to have each, Heather, to bounce ideas off of. It's always been, I have a wild idea. And then it's like, oh, and then said, wild idea comes out, like this new studio that we just moved into. Yes, we want that. What's the first step? Let's do that now, called the real estate agent. That's the first step, find out the details. What's the second step? You know, and then just do it, just day by day, and then let it compound. Let it grow and don't like you said, I mean, I don't know. Maybe you can say, oh, in three weeks we're gonna start this project if you are really organized like that. But for me, something has to happen immediately when the idea comes and it doesn't have to be a big thing. It doesn't have to mean cancel everything else and focus on this all day. It's something has to put it in motion and move that train forward. I think doing 75 Hard, I've always known that, I've always kind of practiced that. But now I can fall back on this experience and say, okay, there are so many days that I really didn't want to get out of bed when the alarm clock went off to work out or I really didn't want to do that at the end of the night. You know, forgot that I didn't finish my water side, chug it at the end of the day so I can fall back on that experience and go, I know that I can make it happen, even if it's uncomfortable and even if it's inconvenient. Doing those tasks that feel kind of grueling at work or the things I don't really want to do that I haven't had a chance to outsource yet or whatnot. It's just do it and check it off and move on. Do it again. So yeah, I mean, so many things. How about you? 

Heather Sager  1:29:05  
If I had to like simplify I wrote down this phrase while you were talking. For me like the again, like similar what you said. All the things, right, infuse into it. When you own your own business, life and business kind of really merge. For me, it was really, I wrote it down. Concentrated superpower time. Through 75 Hard, I worked in my business less. I worked on my business less. I got to the point where I typically now don't start my workday until 10am. I work until about 1 and then kind of tinker throughout the afternoon. I am really trying to go my vision is to work less than 20 hours a week in my business for when my kids are in school and then for me to live life, learn piano, learn Spanish, do random things, make my own hummus. I don't know I want to do other things. And so this to me was going, how do I let go of all the extra things that I thought I had to do because somebody in a podcast said I should versus the things that I actually want to do and are actually getting results in my business. That's what it was. It was for me to go, how do I take the diluted efforts that I was put in my business and say, how do I concentrate, Heather Sager, in the most effective ways in my business, and I'm still figuring those pieces out. But 75 Hard, I mean, I had my biggest month in the last 12 months last month. A lot of it was private client work. I keep getting people coming to me. I'm not marketing for private client work, but it's coming in. 

Frannie Wilson  1:30:36  
When you sit down to work. It's like, like you said, it's focused work. It's like, powerful work. It's not clicking between tabs, you know, whatever happens, happens. 

Heather Sager  1:30:49  
Yep, it's like the same thing. We fill our space with a lot of extra busy stuff. The one thing I will say, the one thing that I now know is my next phase, is to develop a far more healthy relationship with social media. I'll go through ebbs and flows. Side note, if y'all have issues with social media, head on back to, I'll link to the episode in the show notes. I did a book review on how to break up with your smartphone last summer. I think we all need to do a social media detox here and there and I'm gearing up for one of those in July. But I think we all are going to have, like this is not a check the box thing you go through personal development one time and like, right, you're perfect. It's like a constant. It's a constant thing. 

Frannie Wilson  1:31:28  
I was just gonna say that this doesn't fix it. It doesn't just like fix everything. So like Day 76 you're like, oh, now I prioritize everything perfectly forever, you know, 

Heather Sager  1:31:37  
It's like, now what's next?

Frannie Wilson  1:31:38  
Just me having this conversation with you is inspiring me again to go to do a time audit on my days, you know, because I'm not doing 75 Hard right now. I still work out every day almost. I still read, I still drink the water. Oh, by the way, the water for me. This thing, half a gallon. I only have to refill it once. Yeah, so I because the figuring out how many ounces and refilling it how many times, I would have lost. 

Heather Sager  1:32:09  
It all comes back we got to figure out our way of doing things. 

Frannie Wilson  1:32:11  
But that water jug goes with me everywhere, you know, and those kinds of things stayed with me and some of them have to be a little bit more. Oh, I should really be more intentional about my time. I should really like go on the walks some more, like put and make the walks a priority again. I do. Yeah, so it is ongoing work that we have to do of course. I don't know. We got talking all day long. I'm just so glad that it found me and that I shared it and then it found you. 

One other little residual thing that happened for me that I always tell people is like one of my favorite side effects of 75 Hard was that I can now drink black coffee. It's like the weirdest thing ever. I used to just always had like creamer, like vanilla creamer or whatever flavors, getting lattes. I cut out dairy when I did. My diet didn't include dairy and so I started drinking nytro coffees at Starbucks, which are creamy, you know, and I can drink those black and then I kind of weaned me into it. I'm just like black coffee, K-pods can be crap, whatever gas Station black coffee, and I'm like, yes, all day long. I don't really drink less caffeine but that is like one of my favorite things. I'm like, I always wish I could be a black coffee kind of person. 

Heather Sager  1:33:37  
I wish I could be a morning person or I wish I could be a whatever person. I hope that today's conversation has inspired y'all to like not necessarily go out and run into this challenge although if it's calling to you and you're like, yeah, I've already gotten messages from people going like I really need to do this, then I'm like go for it. Run in full headfirst. Just do it but if that's not really the point of today's conversation. It was more of us to go, how can we continually have conversations like this to keep us on the path that we're wanting to be on, the intentional path towards growth. I think for anyone listening to show obviously you're working on yourself, you're working on your business, you're trying to figure out how do you get to the next level, working on the personal stuff, that's part of it.

Frannie Wilson  1:34:22  
I don't want to put expectations on people either what to expect from your own 75 Hard challenge. Because I think you and I both came out of it with really different things we both completed it different ways. It's just beautiful no matter what even if you only make it 16 days. If you want to try it, make that commitment to complete it even if you have to start over. Lots of people do that. Lots and lots of people have to start over and that's okay. It's not like you failed. You can always start over if plans never go as planned but committing that you will finish it is such a huge accomplishment. 

Down like, what else do like you said you want to like, learn to play the piano and like, learn to speak Spanish and all these things? What have you just said, I'm gonna, like, listen to a Spanish speaking podcast or whatever for 20 minutes a day for 60 days or whatever that is. It doesn't even set a time limit around. Give yourself that parameter just like anyone was at any goal set, like where they wanted to do it for a quarter or you want to do it for a month or whatever. What if we broke it into little increments like you do and 75 Hard and you committed to doing that. How powerful is that? You don't have to sign up for piano lessons and dedicate your whole life to like playing the piano. You know, it's just these little micro changes in your days and how much they add up and compound is that's really freaking amazing. 

Heather Sager  1:35:48  
Yeah, it totally is. It's just fun to be able to think about all those things when you realize that you actually do have capacity in your life to continue learning as we should. Oh my gosh, it is so good. We were going to wrap this bad boy up. I love just having conversations with interesting people about interesting things. 

The timing on this, so side note last week y'all. If you missed it, I had an interview with Zack Spuckler, where we talk about how to leverage challenges in your business and today was like a total abstract of taking challenges and putting it into your life. But I just I don't know, I just think there's so much here. So for me, thank you so much for being bold and pitching to insert yourself in the best way in this conversation. This was so much better than me rambling for an hour by myself. Thank you. Thank you. For those listening, we talked a little bit about your brand at first, but where can people connect with you online and follow you and your business and all of the stuff that you're up to?

Frannie Wilson  1:36:54  
You probably don't want to follow my personal account. I don't know. My business account is ampersand_studios. That's where all the intentional stuff happens. 

Heather Sager  1:37:06  
Cool and all the other fun things, so we'll link to it in the show.

Frannie Wilson  1:37:08  
Yeah. Yep. And yeah, thank you so much, Heather. I'm obsessed with your podcast and everything you do. It shows your passion, really shows. I mean, obviously, you're so easy to listen to. You speak so, so well and I really look up to you a lot, so thank you so much for the work that you're putting out. I know podcasting is weird because you're just talking and you don't know if people are listening to you but I'm I'm there so I'm there listening.

Heather Sager  1:37:40  
Thank you. Thank you and thank you all so much for showing up here today. This was a fun conversation and I'm just so grateful that y'all keep showing up, like Frannie. If you're listening and you enjoy what you're getting out of these episodes, please take a moment, share this with your friends on social media. If you think other people need a kick in the pants and of course please, please, please, leave a review and rate the podcast. Alright friends, we will see you next week on another episode. Talk soon.