The Ramble Refinery with Heather Sager
You can’t spell message without mess—because big ideas don’t show up fully formed. They start rough, unrefined, and a little all over the place. But that’s not a problem, it’s part of the process.
The best speakers, thought leaders, and business owners don’t wait for the perfect message—they refine it by showing up, sharing, and shaping their ideas in real time.
That’s what The Ramble Refinery is all about.
Welcome to the place where we normalize the messy middle of speaking, marketing, and business growth. Whether you’re leading workshops, speaking on stages, or showing up on podcasts, your voice isn’t just a marketing tool—it’s your most valuable business asset.
Hosted by Heather Sager, a speaking coach and business strategist who helps experts get their ideas out of their heads and into the world, this podcast dives into the raw, unpolished side of refining your message, using your voice, and growing your impact.
Because every great message starts as a mess—so get ready to ramble.
The Ramble Refinery with Heather Sager
Clarifying Your Message One Stage At A Time With Merritt Onsa
Is your message catnip to your audience?
Clarity in your message comes from taking action over and over. The more you speak, the more you learn about what creates those “aha” moments where your message clicks with your audience.
Yet, so many business owners try to think their way through why their messaging isn’t landing. They’re caught in the perfection trap leading them to believe they don’t belong on stage until everything is figured out. The truth is they’d get a lot further faster by testing it in front of an audience.
That’s exactly what Merritt Onsa, a dream coach, who helps Christian women step into their purpose, experienced. Fast forward to today, and Merritt just had FOUR speaking opportunities offered to her!
Merritt dropped gems in this conversation that will hit home for any business owner wanting to improve their messaging, tune in to hear our conversation.
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I think there was a huge part of me realizing that what I wanted to put out into the world was already in me and I didn't have to like conjure it up. I just had to be courageous enough to open my mouth and try it. So I think it's been being willing to get it wrong or partially right to discover like, oh, this is what resonates with people. So it's been huge.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh oh. This is the podcast for the entrepreneur who wants to make a big impact, who doesn't shy away from hard work but also wants to enjoy life along the way. Hi, I'm Heather Sager, former executive-turned-entrepreneur, and I've spent the last 20 years working with premium brands on sales, marketing and communication and I've learned that when you become a magnet with your message, you only need a hint of hustle to achieve your goals. Get ready to be inspired and ignited each week with tangible strategies on sales, speaking, marketing and so much more. This is the Hint of Hustle podcast. Let's go Music playing]. Well, hey, friend, welcome back to another episode of Hint of Hustle.
Speaker 2:This week we're coming at you with an interview with my friend and client, merit Onsa. She has been inside my programs for nearly two years, so she has a unique story. She's part of the program that was a year-long program where she learned to refine her messaging and get practice showing up and speaking, and then, most recently, six months ago, she participated in the Signature Talk Accelerator. So in this she shares her story around how Clara find her message and taking big, bold action, how that's impacted other areas of her business beyond just speaking. You're going to love this one. She has so many great insights to share. Also, the pep talk you didn't know you needed around gaining confidence and really what it looks like to show up and look back and cringe at your content and be proud of it.
Speaker 2:One of the things that Merit shared with me right after we finished record that. I was like dang, I wish we would have got it, so I have to give you the update here. So, first and foremost, you'll hear all about what Merit does in her business. She's a dream coach. She has online programs, a digital course. She does a group coaching program. She does speaking. She has a really amazing podcast.
Speaker 2:What I loved was she shared that just this week, as we're recording this, right after we hung up. She has four speaking opportunities this week alone, and what is she most proud of with these? Well, one. She works her tushy off to make this happen, but all four of these opportunities came her way. You see, when you learn how to communicate effectively to the right person and you're messaging down, you become magnetic, not just to your ideal clients, but to stage opportunities, where, of course, you want to show up and you want to pitch, but how wonderful would it be for you to be looked at as the authority in your field and have people seek you out to speak on their stages. So I love that for Merit. Congratulations to you. So frickin' cool.
Speaker 2:Also, at the time of this episode going live if you're listening and it is in the have you relatively around the time you're hearing this be sure that you get your tush signed up for becoming the known authority. If you want to be the kind of person who attracts those inbound opportunities, both for prospects in your program but also for speaking opportunities, you have to be known for something. So in my private podcast series, becoming the Known Authority, paired with my green room sessions, where you're going to get some spicy Sager coaching, which we refer to a lot in these interviews, you can sign up for that. All the information is down in the show notes. If you by chance are listening to this later and it's no longer live, be sure to jump on the waitlist for the next round of the Signature Talk Accelerator so that you can get your message nailed down and start showing up in an even better way.
Speaker 2:I am so thrilled for you to listen to this episode. Let's pass it on over to Merit. All right, we're officially here, merit. I am so freaking thrilled to have you on the show. Welcome officially to the Hentafasal podcast, my friend. Thank you so much. It's a joy to be here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were joking before we hit record on this Merit and I have been talking about doing this interview for probably over a year. Merit's been with me for quite a while. I've been doing this for a while I think almost two years. We're going on that. We have been working together and it has been a joy to watch your growth and watch your confidence soar over that time period. So I cannot wait for people to hear your story today. So why don't we start with a question Tell us your business and how you help people in your business.
Speaker 1:Sure, yeah, so I am what I call a dream coach but in real life terms people just call me a life coach, but I work with Christian women who have a dream coach, but I work with Christian women who have a God-shaped dream, thus the dream term. And really, you know, the irony of it all is I help them get through the procrastination, the fear, to find courage to step out into something they feel like they were made to do with their life. So I say irony because sometimes I lack the confidence.
Speaker 2:But it really happens to be that like conundrum for so many of us as coaches is the thing that we coach on, is the thing that we constantly have to work on. I think, actually, there's a beautiful gift in that. So let's well, real quick, I want to hit on the. So your coach, how do you work with people? So let's talk about the business side for just a moment, and then we are going to rewind it back and talk about your business-building journey. To get to this point. So, how do you help people through your programs? Do you do one-on-one? Do you do group coaching? Do you have courses? Like, give us a little high level. What's merit-specific? Sure?
Speaker 1:yeah, so I started out with one-on-one coaching and the big thing that I'm doing right now is called the Dreamer Lab. So that's like a 12-week group coaching experience where there's a defined period of time, people come in saying I'm going to work on this aspect of my dream and then we do that together as a group for a quarter. I also have an imposter syndrome course and a podcast course. I got a lot of stuff going on, but the Dreamer Lab is really what I love and where my heart is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, I love that. And beyond business, if you don't mind sharing, is this a full-time thing for you? Do you have a life outside of this online world? No, life Like what do you do.
Speaker 1:No, I have two kids, an eight-year-old and a five-year-old that's about to go to kindergarten, and I care for my aging mom who has Parkinson's. We have a lot going on. But yeah, this is. I started a podcast in 2016 and this is kind of the outgrowth of that, so yeah, that's beautiful.
Speaker 2:I think it's really important for us, especially, I think you would agree, when listening to podcasts. It's really easy sometimes to double down on the like. Here's the business thing I'm always curious around. Okay, so what does our life look like offstage? Because I like to have that filter. Call me weirdo, but I like to have that filter when I'm listening to other people, if going right. But also what's going on in your life? Because I need that for me to measure my own expectations, for comparing my growth and what I'm going to take on. I like to know that. So, thank you, thank you for doing that. Let's rewind it back a little bit and talk about your business two years ago. So that's, I think, about the time when you and I cross paths. I, okay, now I'm having a brain fart because I don't even remember how we cross paths. Do you remember how?
Speaker 1:we first connected? Yes, yeah, so Katie Wousseau was my business coach and she's no longer doing business coaching, but I was finishing up a program with her and you guys I think you were on her podcast, is that right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did. She came on my podcast and we talked about planning. I still remember she had the most beautiful Trader Joe's grocery shopping analogy prepared for her interview with me. And I'm like Katie, I love analogies and I love Trader Joe's, and you will forever have a place in my heart for sharing them. So, yeah, she was on my show and I was on her show.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and she was great and really taught me things I didn't know, that I didn't know about business. And then I got stuck Like, but I think my messaging is really not clear enough because I wasn't attracting people that were responding. There were still people listening to my podcast, but I wasn't attracting the people that were responding with like, oh, I need more of merit, or more of whatever merit might someday offer. And so I think I came to you in a pretty emotional season of like, what am I gonna do?
Speaker 2:Lots of tears With a business can be emotional. Okay, I am curious around that phrase. I just wrote it down. My messaging must not be clear enough. Was this something that you were, like, consciously thinking, or did you hear messages getting into your brain telling you that merit? Your messaging isn't clear enough, like, was that a thing that you knew, or was that a belief that you adopted?
Speaker 1:That's a good question. I mean, I think it was something that I new or begin to understand in this phase of like okay, if I'm gonna provide a service, I have to actually be able to define that for someone so that they can go, oh, yes or no. You know, that's for me, and so I and the whole like God-shaped dream. It's kind of vague and I'm still wrestling with how do I define this in a way that still includes a few groups of people, like it might be writers or speakers or people who wanna launch a ministry or do some sort of something in their community, but I haven't been ready to be like, no, it's one type of person. So how do I talk about a dream and not be incredibly vague so that everyone's like, oh well, that's not me. So, yeah, I think it was something that I knew and I'm still working through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, we all are, and I think what's interesting is it's funny, as I was mentally preparing for I'm doing a batch of interviews today, as I was preparing for yours. You are one of the people that I always remember how to introduce you, because I will never forget helping women achieve their God-shaped dream Like that phrasing is. It's very uniquely tied to you and it calls out the person who you are for. So and it's something you and I've talked about before I think a lot of times we get caught up in this idea that we have to be like so specific and it has to be so narrow and so, but sometimes the language we use, we create this instant identifiable language that our person just knows where their person, yes, and our programs further clarify the problem that we solve, but it doesn't always have to be in that one-liner statement. So, just so you know, I love your tagline, I love how you do it. Do not change that, because when my memory will break and I'll ruin it. So no, for me, don't do it.
Speaker 1:Thank you for that. I appreciate that affirmation.
Speaker 2:So let's talk about so. A couple of years ago, you were like all right, I got to get my messaging dialed in. I need to talk about this in a more clear way because you had the podcast, you were doing things, but you weren't quite attracting people to say I want to work with you, I want to invest with you and make this happen. So what were some of the things that you did to start getting that messaging clarity down?
Speaker 1:You know, I think it was talking to people and asking them what is it that? If I were to offer more than the podcast, what do you need and want? And where are you getting stuck? And you know how are you feeling, unable to identify your own dream? I mean, I had the problem that my audience has, you know, and so it really was getting in front of those people and learning from them. What, how were they talking about it? And then it was like, oh, I see.
Speaker 2:Were you able to see that at first or was it? Did you kind of find yourself in a little bit of a like how do I reflect this back? I don't know. Sometimes when we interview people it's like it's still kind of hard to get.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, it's been an ongoing process. And I have a very messy spreadsheet where I'm like somebody says something, I'm like, oh, that has to go in the spreadsheet. And when I'm looking for messaging language, I go back to that and I'm like, oh yeah, that person talked about it. In this way, I have one gal that I worked with and she was like, well, you know, I bought, you know, like a dummy's guide on how to write a business plan, and then I just decided I'd rather go shopping at Kohl's and you know, put the book and I was like, oh yeah, that's a good one. You know, we all you know, binge Netflix, whatever it is we'd rather do than the hard thing that we really want to do, but maybe not today.
Speaker 2:So I'm still working, I mean, and Kohl's cash has an expiration. So I mean, there's the earth in being scarcity about? Talk about marketing, yeah totally, totally.
Speaker 1:So yeah, still working on it.
Speaker 2:When you started getting clarity around what your people were wanting, the language that they were using, was that like the thing, or did you? Did that surface another set of problems for you? I'm just curious, like when do you walk us through? I'm gonna give you the mic. Why don't you walk us through a little bit around what your journey has been like from that first moment when you're like I gotta get my message dialed in to like, okay, I'm feeling better about my message. What was that journey for you?
Speaker 1:Well, it's a bit of a blur, but I you know, because in the last two years we've also been coming out of COVID and I was homeschooling and all of that. But I began to, as I was working through learning, like a talk. If I were to deliver a talk, what would I actually say? And you pressed me to make a few deadlines for myself, which was really good. But then I also began to test out an offer and I called it what did I call it? The something accelerator, I don't even know, but we hold on real quick.
Speaker 2:This is like a good lesson learned for anybody who is like what's my first offer? Or what's that thing gonna be Fast forward two years. You're probably not gonna remember anyways, cause it's all about learning. So like that, right there, with a lesson in itself, meron.
Speaker 1:For sure, I mean, and I wanted something. I knew I wanted something to gather women so that it wasn't just me talking to them one-on-one, but that they could talk to each other. And that was where it got super rich, where we were all able to engage in this, whatever my accelerator thing was called, and people could give me feedback. And hey, merit, this resonated with me or I loved it when you did this. And what turned out like? There were some small things. I thought it was, I thought it had to be this huge extravaganza, but there were some small things that people were like I really just loved being on a Zoom call with three other people.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, okay, and I think there was a huge part of me realizing that what I wanted to put out into the world was already in me and I didn't have to like conjure it up.
Speaker 1:I just had to be courageous enough to open my mouth and try it and be willing for it to be 80% or 50%. And then you know, know that everybody else's collective memory was not gonna be like oh, merit, you're not quite there yet. You know they're like oh, I'll take what I like from this and if I like it enough, I'll do it again. And so, as I've refined what it looks like to work with me, more people are saying I'm doing it again. I'm gonna do it again. I'm signing up in October. I have people telling me I'm signing up for your group in October. I have people who are saying they're signing up, telling other people they need to sign up. This was not happening two years ago, so I think it's been being willing to get it wrong or partially right to discover, like, oh, this is what resonates with people, so it's been huge.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. Okay, so listening to that is you're really describing the business building iterative process right Is that? We test things, we try things, we get the feedback. Tell me how creating a talk well for you signature talk, whatever talk, whatever you wanna call it right, but the talk creation process and getting better at speaking how has that influenced that iterative process for you and your business?
Speaker 1:You know I think it's helped me. I think you know I'm unique. Maybe I'm different from your other clients. I came in not having frameworks, not having processes, and so putting together a signature talk forced me to put my ideas in boxes that people could identify with and digest, and that actually doing those two things together took a lot out of me. It was really challenging. I felt myself very envious of all the people who are like I don't have a six-stip framework, but it also meant that once I figured it out, I could go. You know, I mean not that I have it all figured out totally, but being able to talk about things in that defined way like this, is how I think about the process of stepping into a God-shaped dream and seeing it as a container that I could be like here, do you wanna try? And then people go oh, yeah, okay, it's not as hard as it sounds. Or it's not as hard as I'm making it because here Merit's defined it in six categories or whatever it is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, it's almost like you've worked to organize your own ideas so that you have the right to recognize your own ideas, so that you have go-to language or go-to things, if you will call them frameworks, call them meritisms, like whatever you wanna call them right. But when we're constantly talking about things in a new way, we create kind of confusion for our audience, so no wonder they don't like describe it in the way that we wanted them to describe it. So you know. It's interesting, though, that you talk about how you didn't have the frameworks or you didn't have the processes. That's very common.
Speaker 2:A lot of people who come through the programs, right, they're kind of doing both, or maybe they had something, and they end up actually recreating their frameworks in our work. So you have a special insight into how I teach and just my world of content and how I approach things, because you joined my 12 month program, speak Up to Level Up back in. Was that the end of 2020? 2021., 2021. So you experienced Speak Up to Level Up, and then you've experienced me repackaging, just teaching the signature talk component in three days. So I'm curious from your take right and this is not to speak to the differences in the programs, but more of the what did you take from either and kind of, what would you recommend for someone listening around, like the importance of getting a talk done, like why is that a significant milestone?
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, both have, and your coaching has an insistence really to schedule a talk. I mean, that is the bottom line, that if you don't have something on the calendar, if you're anything like me, you're gonna wait, you're gonna. Well, you know that'll be next year or next month or whatever. So when I went through Sulu, I did, I scheduled a talk at my church and it was terrifying, but I did it. And then, after I did it, I was like I think this needs a little bit more work. Obviously, like I think that's a natural part of the process, that this was just the first version of the publicly heard talk and then the signature talk accelerator. I happened to have a talk coming up. So when you were asking who wants to do the accelerator, I was like, well, it's a little scary because it's super close to when my talk is happening. But hey, if it's three days and then I'm gonna get it done.
Speaker 1:And that was content.
Speaker 1:You know I had poked through your training to get what I needed when I needed it, but I hadn't done it all in one fell swoop, which was kind of a brain fry, but it was so good because it forced me to get my stuff together to when we did some co-working sessions.
Speaker 1:I could just like turn it off and go in the quiet room and be like these are the things that have to be finished. But it forced me to get out of that perfectionism and I don't even think that I know that I'm doing it when it's like. Well, I get to a point where I'm not sure how to do this piece of it, so I throw my hands up and go eat lunch or something or go to coals. But the signature talk accelerator have condensing that in three days made me get it done. And then I went and did my talk and it actually, because it was so recent, I felt like I could be more connected to who I am and not just like, oh, here's this outline I have to follow. So I don't know if that answers your question. I've kind of no idea.
Speaker 2:I think what I heard and what I was thinking of as you were describing this and I had never. I knew, but I had never thought about so clearly before you and I have talked a lot about perfectionism we're gonna dive into that. Next you open the door for that, so we are gonna dive in.
Speaker 2:What I notice is when it comes to implementation for any kind of learning. So take any program under the sun y'all, if you're listening, I know you've bought courses and stuff before the time you give yourself to take the program. Between the taking, we fill up the space, and what I see oftentimes and I think this is what happened with you is that in between just that space and that time, we think, oh, space is good, more creative thinking, more better ideas will flow, more time means higher quality product. But what we find is the more space between, the more opportunity for our brains to run amok and perfectionism to come in and comparison to come in and all these other things that really lead to self-sabotage, which we don't often think of. So can you talk about just perfectionism for you and just how that resonates and how you've experienced that over the last couple of years, even whilst having access to, I mean, the best day in training ever? Of course, of course.
Speaker 1:I mean, I think it's this. It's hard to put a finger on it because it feels kind of nebulous, Like it attacks when you're not really paying attention. It's that feeling of well, I just don't know, or I'm like afraid to commit or choose some direction or another, because I don't wanna get it wrong, and I think we make up what the consequences of that might be. You know, like we think like, oh, if it's not perfect, nobody will listen, which is not at all true.
Speaker 1:So I think I just it put up these roadblocks where I couldn't actually get to the finish line. I couldn't check the things off the list that were next in the training. I could hear it but I couldn't actually do it for me until it was like here I am, my talk is two weeks, it has to be done. I can't. I might be able to like eliminate some slides or whatever, but like I have to know what I'm going to deliver, and so having that pressure forced me to make the decisions that I needed to make in the midst of the training. So yeah, and I think I'm super adverse to like I just don't really wanna be in a hard place, I'd like it to be easy.
Speaker 2:I think you're not alone in that, but I know, logically, we all know that we have to have that pressure, we have to have like there has to be some tough decisions and hard work, right, mental work or whatever else, but we don't consciously choose it ever. Yeah, so from that, okay, can you talk a little bit about so going down that line of perfectionism and the waiting for it to be perfect before showing up? One of the things that I've really seen you grow in in the last two years is so the stage that you're consistently speaking on is your own stage. So you've had your podcast, as you said, from 2016,. You've also gone live on social media like you were showing up, but I really have noticed a transformation of how you show up and what you talk about. Can you talk a little bit about that journey for you?
Speaker 1:That's so interesting to have somebody observe you and comment on it. Yeah, I think that I have needed to remind myself that I'm not just here to like say words, like put them out and hope somebody grabs on. I think the word I would use is leadership, and sometimes I think, as women, we may be shy away from that, but I've had to remind myself again that if someone is listening to my podcast or if someone is watching my Instagram stories or my reels, they're looking to me for leadership in an area where I have experienced that they may not, or that they might just be earlier down the road. And if I can remember that like, oh, that's why someone might hit play on a podcast episode, and it feels scary because there's a responsibility that comes with saying, okay, I want to lead you through this, but I feel like that's been the internal difference for me is to start to own that a little bit more.
Speaker 2:I remember you had shared with me I think you posted in our community around a live that you did like one of your first lives, compared to you going live now. Yes, how would you describe the contrast? We'll call it.
Speaker 1:Embarrassing. No, I mean, when I look back, I you know I have to celebrate that woman who showed up, probably with a toddler or a baby and probably unshoured and messy hair, and I was kind of like, well, I think I was narrating my space like here's what I'm in my living room. It was something like that kind of lame, like who cares to now, like I do remind myself to when I get on a live video not comment on how bad I think my hair looks, you know, like, just get into it, they don't care, they're not analyzing that. And so I think it's dramatically different where, at the time, I mean I'm still testing things out. I was testing things out then with a bit more trepidation than I am now. It's like okay, I have something to say and I need to do it concisely and I want to do it in a way that people don't you know X out of it before I actually get to the point.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So, knowing what you know now, around just the whole journey that you've gone on through going live, speaking on your podcast, creating talks, speaking on stages, like you've you've you've done quite a lot in the last two years that in running your programs, if someone is listening and, let's say, they're earlier in their journey, where they're still at the point where they're like I just got to get my messaging more clear so that I can show up and not look like an idiot. What would you say to them?
Speaker 1:Showing up is how you get your messaging clear. That's how you do it, and it feels scary and embarrassing to like put something out there and be like, well, somebody's going to see this and think I'm whatever a dork, don't know what I'm talking about. Should I wash my hair, whatever it is? But until those words come out of your mouth, you aren't giving yourself a chance to practice what you and say oh yeah, I liked how I said that, or oh, I wish I was more clear there. Let me tighten it up next time. That trial and error is huge and it means just like ripping off the bandaid and going for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as you were saying those words, I had the song creep in my head. I'm like I'm a creep, I'm a weirdo, I don't know what the hell I'm doing here. Like that is the anthem for it Right, and it's part of. One of the things we talk about often you mentioned this quite a bit is just get to that first stage. You have to have that stage milestone that you deliver publicly. So you hit that milestone and then we can move on to the part where we start refining. But getting that first version out we call it the SRD, the shittier rough draft, crappy rough draft, whatever you want to call it. Getting that first bad version out, or that first round of lives or podcast interviews or whatever it is right is the committing to that mindset is crucial for the growth for everyone in our programs and in our groups. So can you just talk about how you've adjusted the way that you approach things around, wanting to get it right before starting versus getting it right through starting?
Speaker 1:That's a great, great question.
Speaker 1:So probably the best example I have is podcast, like solo podcast episodes, where I used to like script everything out and then read it and then be like I wish I didn't sound like I was reading and, you know, kind of like beat myself up over that.
Speaker 1:And I think it's been super helpful to kind of go for the bullet points instead, like you teach us that, you know, if I know my content enough that I want to share it with somebody else, like a bullet point could get me started and then and I even hear it when I listen like, oh, that's where I went off script, because it sounds more real and it sounds more natural. And you know I might flub some things, but it's okay, you know, on a podcast you can edit that out. So I just, yeah, I think it's been so helpful to shift into trusting myself more with what I already know and not having to have this like rigid script that I follow, because honestly I don't think that's not as attractive to a listener. I mean, if I can identify it, then they probably can too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how has that that kind of ability to trust bullet points? How has that transformed your own confidence?
Speaker 1:I mean, I have to work on it constantly. You know, it's like, even before getting on this call, like I know what Heather and I are going to talk about, but I need to remind myself I can do this. I have what I need. You know, I've done all the work that needs to have happened for me to show up right now and however that occurs is fine. It's how it was meant to be. I love Heather. When I listened to your podcast, like you just kind of leave it and all the flubs and the you know mispronounce some word or whatever and it's like, oh right, she's totally human too and it allows me to be like, oh, okay, okay, relax, just settle down.
Speaker 2:Permission to lower your standard of the show.
Speaker 1:ladies and gentlemen, but it's more real, right, it's more human, it's more attractive than like the polished plastic robot kind of way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. You know I'm going to go on a little side tangent here, but I think this will be relevant. When I first started my business, I I the comments I always got from people is Heather, you're so polished, heather, you're so polished, heather, you're so polished. And I always laughed because in the real world, life, right Offstage, I'm the silliest weirdo one to the planet, like always flubbing, like very clumsy, and I saw this interesting contrast between the two. They were both me, but I realized that I was trying to show up in a more professional way, which was polished, and I was excluding those things, and what I realized is that put a like a distance between the people that I wanted to serve, they were putting me and this sounds super douchey to say, but up on a pedestal that they thought that's what success was.
Speaker 2:So for me, knowing my audience and knowing that that imperfection and that, whatever is, it's part of the journey and, honestly, it's part of who I am, I made an intentional choice to start being like, including the things that I would have otherwise cut or I would have practiced away, or those things to be even more real, and not only does that freed me from content, but it I think it makes me more identifiable, it makes my content more interesting to listen to and, quite frankly, hell of a lot more fun to record. So it's that, it's just. I think it's just even still. I mean, I've been doing this for a very long time we still have versions of ourself that we grow Like I think I would probably cringe. And high five episode number one Heather on the podcast, you probably do the same thing for you. It's just interesting how we, how we go. Have you noticed that your persona, if you will, on camera and as you're giving speeches or whatnot has that evolved over even the last six months or the last year?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think specifically, if I go back to that talk that I did in the spring I was more free, I was more myself than times when I've had to be more rigid and feel like I had to follow more of an outline script.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and it was interesting after that I felt, like the women who came up and spoke to me you know, we were picking up kids and we were doing all the things I had multiple people come up and speak to me like somebody that they could relate to, like a friend, and that is how I want like I want to come alongside you and do this thing with you, help you figure out your dreams. Versus be this like up on a pedestal, you know kind of speaker which I totally feel, that like I was distancing myself from my audience because I was feeling like I had to be so, you know, perfect and nail it. Versus like, oh, I actually could like speak to a few people before I got on stage because I wasn't like trying not to throw up, you know. So yeah, definitely just being able to be more of myself.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's the. I think that's the continual goal we should all be pursuing is continuing to show up as the truest version of ourself. Right, and because it's going to evolve. Right as we, as we grow in our businesses, as we have more experiences, as other areas of our life influence our businesses, and what we talk about is the more authentic we are. Now there is something to be said around.
Speaker 2:Somebody could hear this and be like oh, I just need to be like more cash. Right, I didn't know that, and that's just to be clear. That's not what we're saying, right? If you're constantly making word flubs, if you're constantly like, using filler words, like, like, like in all of that, that is not going to signal leader. The word you use I love that word, we use it all the time it's not going to signal leader to your audience. So there is a difference between being super casual and really showing up as an authentic leader. I'm just actually curious. We've never talked about this before. Have you ever experienced that? Did you ever feel like maybe we're too loosey-goosey on a stage?
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, and I think some of that is, I feel, uncomfortable, you know, and kind of uncomfortable in my own skin or like, maybe like the background noise in your brain of like I really don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just, you know, imposter syndrome, I'm just faking it here. So, yeah, the difference is that what you just talked about, the being more authentically yourself, there's a warmth to that that draws people in and so, yeah, at the, the like I'm kind of just winging it, I think, pushes people away too, because they're like, what's her problem? Why is she so insecure?
Speaker 2:It's interesting, though it's funny, I've never I don't think we've ever talked about this on the show before in this level of like specificity. But that is when you said like you were nervous or that background track that was going. What's interesting is you notice this a lot when people, when they speak in like peer masterminds or you are in like a peers group and there's a camaraderie that's friendship and people are nervous or uncomfortable, there might be this like oh, I'm going to get really lax, I'm going to get super. I've done this.
Speaker 2:I made this mistake within the last few years of my business before, where it's like maybe a little too personal on the examples or a little too casual in the language, and that's a lesson we all have to learn. Right, it's figuring out what is that balance of polish and prestige and authenticity, and you have to figure out what your mix is. This is actually why we spend so much time developing our speaker personas inside my program. I'm curious has your well one, do you remember what your speaker persona is? And two, has it evolved for you over the last few years?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was different when I first started with Sulu and I don't remember what it was, but I have it right up on my wall Mine is a genuine motivating servant leader.
Speaker 2:And what do those mean to you? Let's give a little bit of a brief to the audience around what? What's the significance of these words?
Speaker 1:It helps me remember who I am and how I want to show up for my audience. So I want to, I want to motivate, I want to serve, I want to lead and I want to be myself, so that they feel the freedom to do that too. And it it kind of gives a container around, like, well, who am I when I turn on the mic, when I go live? And I have had that practice of like, okay, look at that first. Okay, then look at my introduction. You know, go through those reminders, because that's really helpful to like okay, get the rest of the garbage out of the way. This is who I am showing up as and this is my brand, and how I can be consistent and how people see me again and again, and again, if I continue to practice this, I love that you have that on your wall.
Speaker 2:I love that so much. This is part of just giving you guys some things we're about to look forward to. This is called our power prep process and it's essentially it's the the non-negotiables that you do when you jump on a podcast interview, like today with Merritt, when you do a guest presentation, even if you do your own podcast episode recordings. It's the prep that you need to put you in the right state of mind and say what are the talking points that I'm bringing to this specific stage. You're not creating things from scratch. You have your signature talk to pull from, but the power prep really helps you be present in the moment so you can show up at your best. So I love like your model, a model student right now.
Speaker 1:You're doing great. I always aim to please.
Speaker 2:This is so great, all right. So if anyone's listening who's like all right, I love, I love this story. Okay, here what you're saying. To have more clarity in my message, I need to just like suck it up and start doing it. Do you have any other like final thoughts for anyone listening who's still kind of going, but I want to get it right, like I just want to get it done. Like this accelerator sounds great, it's perfect. I'm going to get my message done and then it's all going to be rainbows and lucky charms, like give you, give them the real talk around what it takes to really be comfortable and competent and confident with your message moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it takes doing it again and again and again and not worrying that it wasn't perfect. You know, any of those times it's never going to be perfect and actually as you, as you take action, I think your courage starts to increase because you realize like, oh look, I did that little piece of it and I didn't die and it wasn't a failure. And people responded and I felt different, having taken the action, and that motivates you to do the next one. And I think anybody who's drawn to speaking has probably felt that like I don't even know what to call it that little tickle that you get after you get off stage that you're like, oh my gosh, that went so well.
Speaker 1:You know, and you just feel this like powerful leadership that you had this opportunity to share with others and it's so encouraging that you want more of it is a little bit like a drug. You want more. So I would say to double down and get dirty in the hard work and acknowledge that the things that don't go the way you expect are huge learning opportunities. And if you feel like crying sometimes, that's okay, it's hard, but it's so worth it, and to get to a place where you can walk off stage and be like I did my best for where I am right now. That's huge. It feels so good, and then your message got to get out into the world and that's really what you want.
Speaker 2:I love that Mic drop. Don't actually drop your mic. These are expensive and we need to continue to use them for our podcast. Invisible mic drop. Beautiful Barrett, all right. Where can people find out a little bit more about what you do and maybe follow along on your podcast?
Speaker 1:Sure, my podcast is called the devoted dreamers podcast and you can find seven years of episodes and you can go back and listen to my very first, because it was not perfect. But yeah, find me there or on Instagram. I'm at Merit JO and would love to connect if this message resonates with you.
Speaker 2:That's great. That's great. We will tag so you can give Merit your feedback and give her some love in the comments for being brave and a very honest today in your sharing of how the journey is. I think we were chatting on this before we hit record. It's so easy sometimes when you share these business case studies. It's really easy to be like I did this thing and now look at all my success and around here and inside our programs we talk a lot about. It takes work, like it takes work now guided work, and the work can be very fun, but I can't do as coaches always say. I can't do the pushups for you. And you have gone on your own journey of doing your own pushups, metaphorically, over the last few years and I'm just so freaking proud of you. Through all the highs, through all the lows, you just continue to show up for your audience and it really shows true devotion that you have Talk about naming your podcast, but true devotion that you have for your wanting to serve and truly help and make a difference. You're doing great, girl. I'm so proud of you. All right, friends, I hope you enjoyed this interview. We will see you again next week. Thanks for listening to another episode of the hint of hustle podcast.
Speaker 2:If you're in the season of hustle, consider this the permission slip. You didn't need to take a beat. Go on a walk stretch, call a friend, go reheat that coffee for the fourth time and actually drink it. Because those big dreams you're chasing, they require the best version of you. And if those goals include expanding your audience, establishing your industry credibility and selling your premium price programs, the best way to tackle this is through speaking. Your voice is your best brand asset and will teach you how to use it as a marketing tool. Head on over to the speakercocom forward slash. Start and I'll see you there.
