Hint of Hustle with Heather Sager
You probably don't need someone to tell you to work harder, you’re good at that. Really good.
But somewhere along the way, success started feeling like it was costing you something. Your relationships. Your health. That version of yourself you LIKE. You started wondering if there's a way to win in business without putting everything else on the back burner.
I'm Heather Sager, former corporate executive turned high performance coach specializing in communication. I've spent 23+ years on stages and inside thousands of businesses learning that the entrepreneurs who are truly crushing it are the ones who got really honest about redefining their success and built accordingly.
Each week we get into exactly that, business, marketing, personal growth… the 5 star reviews paint the picture: it’s like grabbing a drink with that ridiculously wise biz friend who has you laughing one minute, scribbling notes the next, and always leaves you fired up to take action.
Welcome to Hint of Hustle where ambitious leaders win at work and thrive in life. Let’s dive in!
Hint of Hustle with Heather Sager
214. How This Speaker Got 19 Speaking Gigs (And Counting) With One Talk Featuring Nicole Hatherly
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Be honest: Do you have a graveyard of talks you’ve delivered 1, 2 or 3 times? Do you feel like you’re creating a new talk for almost every speaking opportunity?
If you’re picturing your Canva dashboard packed with slide decks, right about now, you’re in good company.
Many of my Signature Talk Accelerator students come into the program with a bunch of talks, before honing in on a signature talk topic that’s versatile enough to be used over and over again.
Nicole Hatherly, a Global Brand Strategist & Professional Speaker, was one of these students. As an already good speaker, she struggled with the idea of how to clearly articulate her expertise into one talk.
But inside the Signature Talk Accelerator she found her ‘margarita message’<---tune in to learn my spicy take on honing in your talk focus.
In this episode you’ll hear why Nicole no longer believes a signature talk is a one-trick pony, and how in 6 months she’s gone from a rough draft to delivering it 19 times and counting for three very different types of audiences!
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Creating a Speaking Snowball Effect
Nicole HatherlyAnd so this one talk actually can go through , and it has been delivered 19 times . I came back to it's the same talk , but what did this group of incredible humans do day to day ? What does it look like ? What can it look like ? What do they need and want most when their work isn't speaking for themselves ? What does it look like for them ? And if I can go back and just re-center myself in the audience , the same talk can be delivered to many , many people . I think to probably every human on the planet .
Heather SagerThis is the podcast for the entrepreneur who wants to make a big impact , who doesn't shy away from hard work but also wants to enjoy life along the way . Hi , I'm Heather Sager , former executive turned entrepreneur , and I've spent the last 20 years working with premium brands on sales , marketing and communication , and I've learned that when you become a magnet with your message , you only need a hint of hustle to achieve your goals . Get ready to be inspired and ignited each week with tangible strategies on sales , speaking , marketing and so much more . This is the hint of hustle podcast . Let's go Well . Hey , friend , Welcome back to another episode of hint of hustle .
Heather SagerThis week I'm talking to Nicole , or , as we call her , Nick Haderly , and she has an incredible story to share of taking her already good speaking skills and her job as a professional speaker and really leveling that up in an incredible way . This interview is going to blow you away . Not only is her story inspiring , but Nick shares . She just drops these little nuggets of gold on specific tactical strategies that she learned and has honed . Through working together with me inside my signature talk accelerator and now in my membership the speaker society , she's really learned how to position herself as a professional speaker and how to create that speaking snowball effect I often talk about , which is where stages create more stage opportunities , and Nicole does this beautifully . She shares with you some of her specific tactics for follow up and how she amplifies one stage moment in too many . So you're going to , for again , eat this up .
Heather SagerAlso , if you've ever had the question around , can I really sum up what I do in a signature talk , If you have different customer avatars , if you will , if you speak to different types of people and you're just wondering like there's no way I'm gonna have to have multiple talks . We address that in this session . We also talk about creating customization in your talks and really how you can make one talk stretch a long ways in your business so that the time that you spend on stage truly does give you more freedom and flexibility back when you're offstage . So we'll go ahead and pass it over to this incredible conversation with Nick . I'll see you on the other side . Well , hey , Nicole , officially welcome to the hint of hustle podcast . I am so thrilled for our conversation today . Oh , I'm thrilled to be here .
Nicole HatherlyThank you for having me on Long time listener . First time speaker .
Heather SagerYes , okay , you have one hell of a story which we're going to get into today . Every time you bring me up to speed around what's happened in your business , I do a happy dance for you , virtually , very virtually , because you are all the way on the other side of the globe , my dear . Just to give our audience a little preview what time of day is it when we're recording this ? Oh , okay , this morning .
Nicole HatherlyIt's 6am this morning , as we record .
Heather SagerIt is and it's afternoon for me here on the Pacific Northwest side of the US , so I'm so , so grateful , but this is how important Nicole's story is . So , nick , why don't we let's just lay the groundwork ? Can you share a little bit about what your business is and the primary way that you help clients ? I sure can .
Nicole HatherlyI am a global brand strategist Means I wake up at any time of the day here and my business is called Brandtru North and what I do is I work with professional experts and entrepreneurs and executives and I help them align their vision , articulate their value and amplify their visibility . So , basically , I get them out from hiding behind their work , because we know that their work doesn't speak for itself .
Heather SagerYes , and that is a phrase you're going to hear multiple times today , my friends , which happens to be the name of the signature talk that Nicole created inside my signature talk accelerator last spring . I can't believe it's really only been a few months since we worked on this talk together .
Building a Signature Talk, Overcoming Challenges
Heather SagerLet's go back a bit . So you and I met through , I think , a mutual program that I was against , yeah . So you came into my world , probably in February or March of last year . What did your business look like at that point ? Yeah , so .
Nicole HatherlyI have been in business for about six and a half years at that point and I was corporate before that , so I was corporate from advertising and then looking after big brands and acquisition machines here in Australia . I came out on my own and I was doing a lot of one-on-one work and that one-on-one work really gave me the groundwork of the tools of what I wanted to do and through the pandemic I really focused away from branding big businesses and focused on branding humans humanely . No humans were hurt in branding and with that I really needed to have a signature talk or to understand or reframe for me what what you did so well , which is what a stage was , and so really getting my message across was my next , as we say , next mountain to go over and I was looking for someone like you . I was looking to hone my message and I was looking to really understand what it was to be a speaker .
Nicole HatherlyBy design I'd been a speaker by default and largely when I was in my corporate world I got to speak on stages and so it really looks different when it's your own speaking and it looks incredibly different when you redefine a stage , what the stages are and that , as you graciously taught me . A stage can be your email list . A stage can be a podcast interview . A stage can be a big ass stage which I've been on the last couple of months , which we'll get to and it's also so delivering programs and it's also probably trying . I guess my goal is to be one of the easiest speakers to be booked across the globe . You know , making the business behind it be effortless too .
Heather SagerYeah , oh , she wants to be an easy speaker , y'all . I'm going to question that later .
Nicole HatherlyI don't want blue M&Ms .
Heather SagerOh yeah , make it , make it easy , make it easy . No , mariah Carey up in here . Okay , I love this . So you , let's just be explicit you were already a paid speaker when you reached out to me around the accelerator , correct ? You were already booking gigs . You already had some on the calendar , I think .
Nicole HatherlyI did . I had some coming up , I was a paid speaker and what I didn't realize until I dived headfirst into STA and really wanting to be that known authority in my area , which can be a really busy space when it comes to personal brand and human brand and thought leadership , what I didn't realize is I was standing on big stages and yet I was being paid and I really wasn't taking into account what the audience experience was . I was focused on my experience , what I wanted to tell everyone , and going through the signature talk accelerator and coming into what do I want to be known for , that absolutely shifted 360 , no , 180 degrees . 360 is right back where you started 180 degrees , which was the biggest thing . So , yes , I was speaking , but it wasn't the type of speaking the audience was enjoying and it wasn't the type of speaking I was enjoying . I didn't get speaking right .
Heather SagerOkay , this is interesting and you knew out of the gate you wanted to build a signature talk .
Nicole HatherlyYes , I did , because when I came in , I remember one of our first sessions and you said you know what's that signature ? And I'm like I probably got 144 talks on any subject that anyone wants me to speak on . And you're like what ? And I think I've got a great yard of talks . I've probably done maybe three or four talks three or four times and then the rest of it just start from the beginning . It was just insane . So yes , the graveyard of talks .
Heather SagerYeah , Okay , so let's talk about the power of one talk . One of the things that we work on together right is identifying what is that thing you want to be known for . What is that like one topic that you're going to lean into and really hone into ? How easy was that for you to do that ?
Nicole HatherlyI've got to say this is the sand in Mataji . This really , from the beginning , got me so frustrated , because you talk about your margarita message . What is it ? Three margaritas in the ? How do you say it ? Simply , and I bloody overcomplicate everything . I was just trying to be too smart with the topic and too smart with , I guess , standing up and standing out and doing something clever , and you were so patient with repeating we call you spicy heather in that . It's like no , that's not , what is it in ? Three margaritas down .
Nicole HatherlyAnd it took me I think it took me the first two sessions in the STA the signature talk accelerated to really understand that one signature talk could actually then be elastic and be many , and we'll talk about how many times I've delivered my talk and how many different nuances , but I just that was probably the hardest thing for me to get is it wasn't dumbing it down , it was what do you want to say ? What are you trying to teach them ? What are they getting out of it ? And I think it was the 11th , hundredth time you asked me no , it was maybe 10 times and it was a hot seat , which I really love , your hot seats . It's made the difference to have hot seats and watch everyone else .
Nicole HatherlyAnd you said what is it , nick ? Well , I said , well , I talk about personal brand , I talk about it inside businesses , for entrepreneurs inside , for executives , inside corporate , and basically their work can't speak for , doesn't speak for itself . And you went boom , there it is . I'm like what they're like ? Your work doesn't speak for itself . And I'm like , yeah , and you said , well , I will never forget .
Nicole HatherlyYou said what do you wish you could actually tell them ? I'm like I want to tell them that they can be confident standing up and shining without feeling like they're a boaster , an imposter or a wanker . And you're like there you go . And that's been the talk . But to get to that Heather was , I think , under engineering and unpacking , years of trying to be clever about what the signature talk was and really talking to humans about what they're thinking and feeling . And now I say it , I get booked for your work doesn't speak for itself . And clients go oh , my goodness , that's exactly what we want to tell all of our team members , our audience , tell us more about that . But I can't say the word wanker many places . So I do kind of interchange that .
Heather SagerWe had a couple moments inside the accelerator live . We had some great examples , but I also got cultured on some terminology . I'm like wait , what that does not mean that same thing over here .
Nicole HatherlyIsn't that right ? We had some great , great moments there between the Aussie language .
Heather SagerYeah , yeah , it was . It was fun . I was actually really impressed . We had a couple of you from Australia and the accelerator . You were the troopers of the thing . So , just to get context , doors are upcoming in just a couple weeks for the signature talk . This is a live taught class , so it's unlike other digital courses where you get modules or lessons stripped over each week with Q and A's Like . This is called the accelerator because we flip all what you know on your head and force you to get it done in three days , which is intense . But you get a special award because a few of you from Australia you guys were up at 2 am , yes , coming to these sessions , which you could have just watched the replays , but you chose to participate live . I'm actually curious around what made that difference for you to actually come live ?
Nicole HatherlyYeah , it's a really good question . Obviously , when I knew that the signature , talk , accelerator or anything that you were doing was on the flip side of the time for me , there was three things that I decided and committed on . The first , that I would . I was a global and I am a global keynote . If I'm a global keynote , that means being global truly , and time then it doesn't matter . I will flip my time and take my rest where I need to , but I would show up as if it was 3 pm , as if it was 9 am , and I didn't actually think about the time . I just committed to being a global speaker .
Nicole HatherlyThe next commitment was to be there live . There was absolutely no way I was missing out on the hot seats , on being able to have that intimate time which we all had with you , if we were there live . And I learned more from the others around me as much as I learned from you and when you think that you know what speaking is about when you come into a room with a group of incredible speakers from all , I guess , from all experience levels . I just learned so much being there live . The third thing was I decided to live in the game and not the gap around being here . And the thing was there was nothing else in my diary at 3 am till 6 am , so it was uninterrupted . It was fantastic .
Heather SagerThat was great . You mentioned the hot seats a couple of times . Right now let's talk a little bit about your experience with that . So , yeah , already , sweating Dival hot .
The Impact of Taking Bold Action
Heather SagerOkay , so there is this thought when it comes to building a talk , I need to learn the recipe of the talk , and if I know what that recipe is , I can just do it and then it'll solve all of my problems . But there's that in between we talk about , which is getting through that messy middle , getting your ideas out , really refining , seeing what you can't see for yourself . So can you talk about how critical it was for you kind of like sludging through the mud of that process to get to the end result ?
Nicole HatherlyMy stomach just turned thinking about being back in what you beautifully put the messy middle . But we all know you call the shitty first draft and I'm going to say that has translated to most of my work , if I can just get started . That shitty first draft was one of the . It was the second hardest thing that I did working with you and it doesn't matter whether it's becoming a known authority or signature talk accelerator . Working with you . You're not going to let us hide in what is perceived perfectionism of trying to edit as we go . And what I realized was that wanting to polish it , wanting to have it right the first time was just an insurance policy , that that I was over engineering and over delivering what could be really simple in the messaging . And also I just got out of my own way and realized I was doing it way too hard for too long .
Heather SagerI mean , that's very , very well put . You put that very simply . I love it .
Nicole HatherlyJesus hard . It sounds super simple , but I'm challenge yourself to do the shitty first draft where everything is just up and out and , knowing that this is a podcast , these are kind of I'm just holding up a visual reference of my big sheets and I've got books of these when I was going through your program when now everything just came up and out and I've continued that practice and I've continued Getting the content out , because that's how we are as humans . We're messy and we're inconsistent and some sometimes incoherent , and that's what the other humans that we're here to also serve and guide are looking to us to be . They're not looking for the polished Nicole or the polished Heather . They're looking for that .
Nicole HatherlyI'm authentic . Are you like me and can I also find my way through ? So that was one Massive element that you gifted to me was you didn't have all the answers in the room either . You would also ask others and you were learning from . What we were talking about is how to serve us and how to guide us better , as you went through as well , which I , your humility , really bread mine and I've got you in my ear most of the time that I'm creating talks now . I've got spicy Heather in the left and I've got really gentle Heather going I .
Heather SagerDo have the multiple personality thing going and it really comes out hard . And this is why I love teaching life and why I love being able to do these life experiences . So much is because you , you get a playoff the room , you get a playoff the group , you get a playoff the , the specific niches and experience levels of the room and you earn the right to kick some ass a little bit .
Nicole HatherlyAnd it's an investment . It's an investment in time and money , obviously , where we're investing in ourselves , and you can take us there . If you're not showing up live , I can bet your bottom dollar that you're trying to multitask , that you're either cleaning the house or driving or looking after children , as you're squeezing this in , and that does not work . You have to come in , you have to do the work and to be there . Live actually creates the room , actually creates the experience that you need to have . You can't co-create that if you're listening as a Bystander or as a byproduct of other people creating it . You just won't get the outcome Because we haven't done the work in the room . It's so crucial and we had a lot of we had , so we had a lot of fun .
Heather SagerSometimes inappropriate comment fun . But let's talk a little bit about the okay . So you went through the three days . You got the outline of your talk . Um , if I remember correctly , midway through the three days you took a pretty big , bold move and you actually pitched yourself . What was your accelerator ? After this idea of like , oh , my work doesn't speak for itself , you saw an opportunity and you pitched it for an event that had closed their speaker application Deadline . Tell us about that crazy ass water , was I thinking ?
Nicole Hatherlyyes , I was midway through , we hadn't even finished and I , I think we were really honing my sparkly story . And that's when I realized that I had a real story to share . And there was this amazing retreat in Fiji , off of it's , about five hours away from Australia , but Very tropical , very lush , and it was 80 women who were coming together and these are high-value women . These are executives , entrepreneurs and incredible women running their own businesses . And I knew that this was my key audience because we just worked on that literally the week before . So as soon as I honed in , I'm like that's them , but the I think it was like what three weeks away , or four weeks of three weeks away ? And I did a bold move and I contacted it's called . She evolves , it's an amazing community .
Nicole HatherlyAnd I contacted the , the fearless leader there , and I just said you know , is there any room to speak ? No , I'm sorry , we've closed all the doors and they've got incredible speakers , like top-notch speakers . And I said can I just share what I speak about and then we can see if there's any room space for me ? And I pitched . I said you know , my signature talk is your work doesn't speak for itself and it will help your audience to stand up , show up and shine without feeling like A boaster , an imposter or a tosser . I think I said and she's like , oh my goodness , we don't have anyone like that in the line up . Could you come and we will make room for you on stage and From there we had some bookable sessions and in those bookable sessions I was able to take a number of women one-on-one through my signature program , which is off the back of your work , doesn't speak for itself , and I was able to go deeper with them , hone them , and what I haven't caught you up about is off the back of that .
Nicole HatherlyI'm actually doing an incredible retreat hosting with Sarah Piri , nelly , who hosted the one that I was speaking at , and two other very well-known Celebrity entrepreneurs here in Australia , and we're doing a brand and design Master car mastermind immersion in Fiji in October for 25 incredible women and I'll be leading a two and a half hour session on your work . Doesn't speak for itself .
Heather SagerLook at you go from one bold move and the fact that you did not take no for an answer . You knew the value of your talk and you said but what if I told you this was the topic ? They create room at the table like for good . This is why this is why y'all need to hear Nick story is because One she gets excited , right and then takes action . So let's talk about this . You mentioned a little bit of this cascading effect of one talk . I want to address one thing real quick first . I Remember when you started in the accelerator you were having a hard time Figuring out how do I take all of these different things I want to talk about . There's no possible way I could boil it down to one talk , or ? But Heather , corporate books me , entrepreneurs book me , I have all these other different kinds of audiences . There's no way I can do this all in one talk .
The Power of a Signature Talk
Heather SagerNick , walk us through what you learned about one talk being able to do a lot of jobs .
Nicole HatherlyI didn't know how I was going to fit my audiences from entrepreneurial month to corporate across the world to academics I've got a quite an Large audience of academia . How was I ever going to have a talk that Was able to talk to every single person in those groups ? And what we boiled it down to was having Personas . So we worked really hard on what type of personas were in these groups . What did they need , want and desire ? Boiling it down to the human need of how do we speak about ourselves ? How do we actually get through that , that very human experience of Wanting the floor to open up and swallow us when we've got the spotlight on us ? And it's universal . And so what I learned about having one talk is that I can have the , the actual body of work . It has actually two names , so it is your work doesn't speak for itself , and the other name for it is activating your thought leadership when we're talking with academia et cetera . But it's exactly the same talk . Your work doesn't speak for itself . And I realized working through with you , and it was through the Signature Talk Accelerator . But the other thing I did halfway through is I knew that I needed some one-on-one and you graciously let me upgrade to the VIP option , and I know that we nailed this in our one-on-one , the VIP , and it was worth its weight in gold and I think it's paid off the investment 10 times just to have that one session where we went through my audience and we went OK , what is the difference is the levers that we can pull to change your talk for each audience . Now , it wasn't that we solved the problem , but you showed me how to go back and change two things what are the audiences , what are their needs and wants , what do they say all the time ? And if you walked around with them for 24 hours , how would you see what they do ? That's holding them back and that , to me , was just a light globe . So it's still the same talk . I just look at the audience . What do they say , what are their year-buts and what do they do in the 24 hours that I'm metaphorically walking with them ? That shows me that they need this talk and I talk to those points , and so this one talk actually can go through and it has been delivered 19 times and it's also been further nuanced .
Nicole HatherlyI was challenged about a month ago with my client who's in Southeast Asia and Personal Brand has a lot of cultural nuances . In Southeast Asia there is a lot of cultural humility . You don't stand up . You are a group , you take one for the team , so to speak , and you don't speak up and you don't stand out . So I came back to it's the same talk , but what did this group of incredible humans do day to day ? What does it look like ? What can it look like ? What do they need and want most when their work isn't speaking for themselves ? What does it look like for them ? And if I can go back and just re-centre myself in the audience , the same talk can be delivered to many , many people . I think to probably every human on the planet .
Heather SagerYou're making me so proud . You're just like name dropping all the tools that we learned right in such a beautiful way . Is what's so important about a signature talk ? So many people think a signature talk is like . Well , this is the script , these are the things that I say , and a signature talk is the best of your knowledge , structured in a way that positions you as that known authority in your field , and you learn how to masterfully position that talk to different audiences so that it can serve different types of groups , different types of user experiences . You learn how to make that talk more dynamic and , Nick , you have done an exceptional job taking the concepts and running with it in a lot of different ways . I mean , you've spoken on some big hidden stages in the last four months . Do you want to share what you can share ? I don't know if you can share them all , but what can you share in terms of what this has done for you ?
Nicole Hatherlyin your business ? Yeah , absolutely . I think the biggest thing it's done for my business is it's made me a professional speaker , and that's different to being a public speaker . So in that professional speaking , it is a serious job for me , but if I get up on stage it's probably one of the most warmly wise , effortless moments for myself and the audience . As you said , it's not scripted and what it's done for my business is it's opened up a whole lot of language that my audiences and my clients now use back to me and so they're kind of dropping .
Nicole HatherlyOh , when the work doesn't speak for itself , it's great to see our audience or the team doing X , y and Z . So in the stages that I booked it's included delivering your work doesn't speak to itself for the Sydney team in LinkedIn . So when you think about LinkedIn as an organization being able to articulate the value of the team and the individuals , I went through a whole piece on storytelling and getting their individual sparkles , sparkly stories and bringing them to life through LinkedIn as well . My other client , tiktok , is doing an accelerator for some of the brightest media up-and-coming managers here in Australia and they really do need your work . Doesn't speak for itself as well , being in those media agencies , and so what it's done for my business is it has articulated my value . It's really put a stake in the ground as why I'm different as well . No one speaks about this topic , but a lot of people speak about this topic . They just haven't honed their stories , they haven't honed the message , and it feels like every time I deliver , your work doesn't speak for itself .
Nicole HatherlyAnd I've now been on stages I think the biggest one was for 980 people , for customer experience professionals in Australia and I was able to tweak my sparkly story with your help . I think I did a break glass in case of emergency . I was about I got booked it was in a couple of weeks time and I'm like Heather , I don't think my sparkly story has got levity . I think it was a little bit too heavy . And you're like right , what are the stories have you got ? And I remember honing the story with you and you're like send it to me , write it out and send it to me . And I sent it to you and you went OK , start here . And when I got it back , it was like start right in the middle , but you've chopped out all the story .
Nicole HatherlyI stood on that stage with hundreds of people Without introducing myself . I stood there and I started . I said it's 2013 . And I went on with my script . Well , it wasn't a script . It was quite natural and captivated the audience because I started in the middle of my sparkly story and took them on a journey that had them sweating , and it was what it's done for my business is . It's really made , created a point of difference where every time I'm on stage for a client and an audience , it feels like this whole 45 minutes to an hour to 90 minutes was made for them .
Heather SagerThat's the job of a signature talk . I think you just hit on the head that so often we think one talk is going to be repetitive and boring and that's like the worst thing for us . As creators and entrepreneurs , we hate that repetitive nature , so that's why we resist and we recreate and we're like , yeah , I could speak on that , or I'm going to build a new one , or I'm going to do this , and we change all the time . But when you know the job of a talk for both you , for the audience , you know what kind of levers to pull the stories , all those pieces you create this newness for yourself every time that you present . And , of course , you have that captivation for the audience because if you're having fun , they're having fun .
Heather SagerI just love how you you're the epitome of building the plane as we fly . Oh , my goodness , what we yes , I mean we , we were because and this is for anyone listening who is already booking speaking events or has the desire to add paid speaking to the mix of things you already have things in motion . So I'm not going to pretend here and be like go through it and you will book all of these talks Like you had a lot of these in motion . It was gasoline on the fire for you and I'm just curious your life before having a signature talk versus your life now with a signature talk . Can you talk about the amount of prep time or admin time , practice time ? What does that look like before signature talk ? After ?
Nicole HatherlyThis is a great question , heather , because I've just been traveling across Australia for the last week delivering my signature talk , and it has been one of the most joyous , effortless weeks of my last seven years . And I was only reflecting this . I was in a place called Hobart . It's in Tasmania , it's a little bit of Australia that broke off at the bottom and it's a gorgeous
From Chaos to Calm
Nicole Hatherlyplace . And I was up running in the mornings before I was speaking and I was thinking it was only about six months ago that I would have pulled an all nighter . I would have been trying to do my slides , I would have been thinking about all the clever things that I wanted to stand on that stage and talk at the audience about . And it was this beautiful space where in the mornings now before a talk , I will go for a run or a walk or I'll be in the environment and I'll be thinking . I'll be actually talking out my sparkly story and I'll be telling . I'll be storytelling as I'm running and I'll go oh , that's a beautiful part of that . Yeah , that's a beautiful part , and I'm always able to be on the stage now and tell the audience something that I've discovered about their town or where I am at or this wonderful experience I'm having with them .
Nicole HatherlySix months ago I didn't have that . I would have been in my hotel room , I would have been fixed on what I was trying to recreate or create for the first time and I just didn't show up with the energy of being effortless but also totally organised with AV . I have , you know , my USB . I have everything and I find it delightful and I think that I'm probably now one of the easiest , most delightful speakers to book . And that's all because I've got this signature talk .
Nicole HatherlyI've had to do it , we spoke about this .
Nicole HatherlyI had a failure of the projector failed and I had to deliver my talk with no slides and nothing .
Nicole HatherlyAnd I was so certain because I knew how to get people around the mountain , go over the mountain and take everyone with me on the journey , even if it wasn't with any visuals , and I was so certain of that that I actually sat down almost in the audience . I said let's do this together and it was this wonderful moment of taking them on a journey . But my whole existence as a speaker has gone from chaos and almost being on the back foot and responding to speaking opportunities to being quite calm , being really confident that what I've got to speak about changes the minds , the lives and the careers of the people who are in the audience , and so I've got a calmness , but I've also got a quiet confidence to go and knock on these doors and say , hey , I've got something that is going to really change the way that your team looks at themselves and delivers as an individual and as a whole , and I'm on the front foot and I'm having a bucket load of fun with it .
Heather SagerOh my gosh this is the epitome of the expression I use a lot is . I believe that the time you spend on stage should give you more time , freedom , flexibility , offstage , and what you just described in such a beautiful way whether it was your morning runs or just the feeling , that freedom that you have in your mind before that is just it's beautiful , something that you said . It really made me reflect on here . What's interesting , you said it was chaos before and then kind of calm and confidence after . I would bet that no one else around you noticed that chaos , that that was all in your head and internally right .
Nicole HatherlyYeah , I wouldn't let anyone see but I would work way too hard to over engineer and I've got to say my talks were over packed because I was feeling less than I was doing a disservice to the audience not that they would know , but that I would know Because I was starting from scratch or I was doing things more last minute . I over packed , I over compensated , I over engineered and it took away from that space and time . You've got in a talk to land things and that beautiful , those beautiful moments that humans need to really catch up to ideas . And one thing that you really took me through is this rhythm of a talk where the space needs to let humans catch up , where things need to sink in , and then leave them and over talk a point .
Nicole HatherlyDon't oversell , don't over make a point . You can make a point from many different angles , but don't over-labor or talk at people . Let them come to their own mind , which is a beautiful moment in the signature talk Accelerator . But also I think and I've watched you with many people now I think you have got this wonderful ability to get us out of our own way and take the chaos out and really simplify what we're doing so that we can build it up from there . But not build it up as tall as it was . Just build it so that it's accessible and enjoyable for everyone .
Heather SagerI think that that beautiful word , that enjoyable , having fun , this should feel fun , and of course it might be nerve-wracking at the start and when you book higher-stakes stages , of course the nerves come in . But what I wrote down on the words that you used to describe I would say you had the chaos to calm , I would say it was . You had a chaotic confidence . To that quiet confidence Right . So now you're far more magnetic with whenever you speak is you're not trying to prove your point or you're not trying to over-complicate to sound smarter , or you're not trying to customize it because you think they need it when they actually don't . It's now . You're just so calm and confident and very vibrant too . Let's go . The calm confidence does not mean that you're like a snooze . You are far from that little spitfire .
Nicole HatherlyAnd this is for anyone listening if you're even speaking in a meeting , if you're speaking one-to-one with your boss or a colleague or a client , when you're taking a phone call , that , to me , is a stage . Now I think about what is my message ? What's the Margarita message , just speaking to one-on-one , to a client ? This redefining of what a stage is has been the single most important and pivotal point of the work that you do , and even hint of hustle , I know that you redefine stages all the time and that stage is anytime you need to communicate something of importance or something of gravitas or something that's going to really light the fire of the person you're communicating with , and I use that all the time .
Nicole HatherlyMy stage is when I'm doing a sales call . My stage is when I'm writing an EDM , when I'm writing an email . That stage is what is the message ? What are they ? Yeah , but what do they need to hear and what is the outcome that you can deliver just in that one moment with them . And that has really redefined the relationship I have with clients , with my audience , and they get , I believe , in the last
Follow-Up in Public Speaking
Nicole Hatherly. Well , since February , in the last six months , people have gotten to know me a lot better , because it's not that wall of what I should be saying . It's this beautiful , authentic . Well , what's the message , what's the magic , what's the momentum through this message ?
Heather SagerI love . I love that . Okay , so we've talked a little bit about how your prep process has changed , how that experience for you and the audience on stage has been an impact . Tell me what's been the difference between six months ago and now , about what happens when you step off stage .
Nicole HatherlyOh , that's a really good piece . I guess that with more time I've got having that calm walking on stage . What I now know is coming off stage , my job is only half done . There is still a stage to be speaking at , when following up , when I guess what it's done is giving me more time in the business of speaking . And so when I come off stage and I think you've seen this in my Instagram , my lives I always do then a video , a piece to camera of what talk I just did , who the audience was and the main takeouts , and that's for my greater audience and that single commitment to knowing that as soon as I step off a stage , I have yet another stage which is my audience stage and behind the scenes which you've graciously taught us by example as well Everything is filmed and I get to chop that sequence up as well into really bite sized pieces of my talk .
Nicole HatherlyBut if not , if it's not filmed and I come off stage , I do a piece to camera of what the audience got out of it , what I got out of it , and I also do a bit of a follow up to my talk . So I'll do a video to the audience thanking them If it's a client audience with a team thanking the team for their time . Here's the top three things . I'm so looking forward to seeing your stories come out in LinkedIn , what you'll be doing next and an open invitation to come and speak to them again . I also do a promo video to most of my talks and that's just a little add on that has really lit the fire of my clients . It's like I'll do a minute straight to your team or your audience about what we're going to speak about and the three things and why they need to show up live , and that's just basically for me . They get to see my energy , they get to see the story that I'm going to be sharing , and that means that they're going to be there live .
Nicole HatherlyIf it's a virtual . They get a sense of who I am , the energy and what I've got to say , and that has been a real game changer as well . It's not just the time that we're on the stage . We've got the job before the stage . How can we actually get in front of our audience before we get in front of our audience ? What's that takeaway afterwards for my Instagram and LinkedIn audience , as well as the audience I've just spoken for , and then what I speak to the client about . Great . What's next ? How can we do this again with the same audience , but change it up ? And do you know anyone else who would benefit from your work ? Doesn't speak for itself , and that's how I get my referrals as well .
Heather SagerYes , friends , this is what we're talking about on one stage . The time you spend on stage should bring more off . So what Nick is exemplifying is we're around here , we're super intentional . We're super intentional so that we don't waste time doing things that don't just take up time and make you feel popular right but they're not actually profit generating activities that have an impact on your audience . So these little nuances around follow up so many people drop the mic at the end and they expect all the praise and claps and they think their job is done .
Heather SagerBut I love how you bring up . We have this whole area of the power is in the follow up and it's not just like a thanks for coming , it's not just your welcome sequence . All there is an art and science . If you really want to be deemed as a professional speaker who books more speaking guests , you are working the process of that professional speaker and what we talk a lot about is how do you now start refining your message , market yourself a little bit more and start messaging it , which we do a lot of that work inside the speaker society . That's our back end membership after the accelerator . So what I just love is that you went and head first got your talk done , started working on it and now you're into that marketing and monetization and message refinement stage , which is where I love to live with clients . But we have to get that signature talk done first in order to do these things you're talking about .
Nicole HatherlyAnd you're absolutely right .
Nicole HatherlyBecoming a known authority , which is your jam , isn't about standing on the stage .
Nicole HatherlyIt's about being really valuable on that stage but also valuable afterwards , and the being that authority in my area of expertise is a lot of the behind the scenes work and it's a lot of the pitching , and , of course , I don't get all the jobs I pitch . I just pitch a lot of jobs , but it's the , even if someone can't book me at the moment . I got a job probably three weeks ago and out of the out of the blue , and this woman from a great organization rang me and said look , I got your name from so and so I'd spoken to that person a couple of months before they didn't book me and I said , oh , what did they say ? Oh , that you've been really super engaging and that you've got a great talk about personal brand . Now I pitched to that person they couldn't have me at the time because of budget , but they then on referred me cold and this woman then contacted me but she could verbatim , word for word , say that though I was talking about how your work doesn't speak for itself .
Heather SagerOkay , this right here is magic y'all . The whole point of the becoming the known authority , this private podcast training , kicks off . I think today , by the time you listen to this , the whole point is becoming recognized , remembered and referred , and I think the short game that so many people play in this online marketing space is we're looking for the immediate payoff , the immediate yes , the immediate booking . But what you just said is one of the currencies that I love the most is the client in front of you . They might be a no , but if you hand them the script of how to talk about you , you make it easy for them to refer you , and you just modeled that . I didn't even tell you to say this , like that is just so perfect , but that that is the secret is you have to give audiences the language to talk about you if you want to be talked about , and you are just . You were doing an exceptional job of that .
Nicole HatherlyI'm so freaking , oh thank you , thank you , and I know that every time I catch you up in high five , we high five . There's that element of the signature talk accelerator that comes back and and that was probably my , some of my hardest points and we look back and go remember when you were resisting , remember when you were really I was in tears , I think , at one time , going it can't get it , but those were the moments that have given me the greatest leaps in my business . Now , and you're right , my focus is on being repeated , repeatable for a client and referred . So if I get repeat business from that client , if I get referred , I'm , I'm , I'm winning , and so it's got .
Nicole HatherlyI can't be a one trick pony with just one talk . That's absolutely true . I have got one talk , but out of that I've got a program that brings your work doesn't speak to itself in a six week program that I'm delivering for one of Australia's top universities at the moment to their professors and their associate professors so that they get their research out in the real world more .
The Importance of a Signature Talk
Nicole HatherlyAnd so it doesn't mean that a signature talk means that you're a one-trick pony . That Signature Talk for me is a program , it's a retreat , it's a one-on-one client experience . It is an evergreen . It's a webinar . There are so many ways that that Signature Talk can live beyond being on the stage , and that's my repeat business .
Heather SagerYeah , it's your messaging and positioning in the marketplace . It doesn't mean it's all that you do , but it's the message that you have strong confidence around how you're branding yourself , how you're talking about yourself , how you're giving other people the script to talk about you . It doesn't mean it's the only thing that you do , but it gets people into your world and then you can serve them in other ways , which I would imagine . We haven't talked about this , nick , but I would imagine all the other talks you've built . We're now at the point for you . You've gone through the accelerator . You've gone through . You've got your marketing down . You got your monetization down . You're refining that talk . It's time for you to add a second talk back into your speaking ecosystem where you can now take one specific thing , like you , actually , you have one your story telling . That's it . We built that talk .
Heather SagerI did the sign . Here's the beautiful part . It's the Signature Talk accelerator , the structure I teach . It's the working draft name that we had of that program before I named it was how to build a damn good talk . That's a Margarita message . Right , that's my deal . Yeah , how to build a damn good talk . Every single time , we start with your signature and then it's rinse and repeat . Nick used that to then build her second talk , to refine her storytelling talk . It's a very specific one , but it's now that you're adding to it . But that flagship one , that signature one , is the one that you lead with . It opens up so many more doors for you To that point .
Nicole Hatherlymy second Signature Talk , which is called the Art and Science of Story Selling , came from my sparkly story . So my sparkly story that sits on the front of your work doesn't speak for itself became a Signature Talk itself . And so from the Art and Science of Story Selling , I tell my story , then go in behind the scenes and I speak to customer experience professionals , sales professionals , people who are pitching in the media . I'm doing one for TikTok next week in Sunny Nusa , which is in Queensland in Australia , beautiful place . I get to go to all these gorgeous places and that one is all about the Art and Science of Story Pitching , how they get storytelling into their pitches . It's the same Signature Talk , different audience , slightly different name the Art and Science of Story Pitching . No one in the world talks about that .
Nicole HatherlyBut it starts with the story that you and I honed in our one-on-one and then I take them behind the scenes and I give them 40 different professional stories they could be honing and I speak to them about their story bank . I've got 56 stories in my story bank now and thanks to you I've got a story bank . But I also that's the legacy of my clients I get them to do their professional story bank and I literally have 56 stories . I counted them on the plane back home last night and I actually bring those stories out at client dinners now . So those stories aren't just for stages . I've got some pretty cool stories that define me and those stories can be retold about me . It's really interesting how a story bank can actually bring to life all of your experiences and bring it into that professional stage .
Heather SagerIt does . This is the power of slowing down a little bit so that you can get the right content pulled out of you , the right stories out of you , the right understanding of your audience pulled out of you doing the work to get it out , to make your life easier in the prep moments , easier in the booking moments , easier in the marketing moments . Like all of that , the goal is to simplify it , but it requires some hard work up front . So for anyone listening , nick , who's like all right , I'm really . I'm like jazzed up now excited about signature talk , obviously they should get on the wait list and join it when the program opens here in the next couple of weeks . But do you have any words of advice or wisdom for anyone listening right now who's feeling really excited about it around what they could expect ? Absolutely .
Nicole HatherlyThe first thing I say is you will never be as ready for this as you are now . We often feel that we're not ready , we don't have the experience , we don't have the time , we may not have the available investment in money and time to make . None of us are ready . Dive in and know that through this experience , it's an accelerator . As you said , the work is done already . Don't get overwhelmed with how much work you have to do Just being in there , being in the hot seats .
Nicole HatherlyMy mindset shift was the work . The rest of it I still am working on . I've got all of the principles and I've got the play sheets , but the work is done . Go in and do it , do it live . That's where the magic happens , because the room is created by your presence , being in the room or what you bring .
Nicole HatherlyThe most important thing and you have been so gracious with this for all of us is never compare yourself to other people . You will always live in a gap . Compare yourself to where you were from the beginning of your experience to where you are at any given moment . For me , I can see just how far I've come in six months . Am I the best speaker in Australia ? Absolutely not . I'm learning all the time , but that's okay , because I have done a damn fine job in the last six months and my gain has been so rich .
Nicole HatherlyI've got you in my orbit and the incredible people that were in the signature talk accelerator are some of my great friends now I'm coming over to the States , as you know , in a couple of months and seeing a lot of these people live and hanging out with them . It's the community you surround yourself that will also be your biggest supporters and your most incredible critiques . That they get the blind spots , and you're okay with that . You'll never be ready . Dive in , beat it alive , commit , commit , commit . Know that you've got a whole community around you and Heather is your fearless leader . Spicy Heather , you'll love her .
Heather SagerSpicy Heather Now . Spicy Heather now . If you're listening to this and you're like , all right , heather , that was a pretty effective sell there for the STA . Just note , doors don't open for a couple of weeks , but what we do have happening right now is registration is available for my free series , the Becoming the Known Authority series . It's a free , private podcast .
Heather SagerWhat I want to bring up is , if you're listening to this episode at the time it's live I am hosting free green room sessions . Mike has mentioned my hot seats and I have a very particular coaching style which you've probably heard from those last few interviews these last few weeks . You probably get on this podcast every single week . For me , I have my alter ego of Spicy Heather where I don't let you hide and I will rattle your shit out of you . If you want to experience that , get a little idea around . How do we actually nail in your signature topic when you enroll , totally for free and becoming the known authority ?
Heather SagerI host these free sessions . You can get a little taste of this to really figure out . Is this the path ? Is this where you should be focused right now ? Really , what would that topic of a signature talk be ? You can join us on that All the links to access that are in the show notes for today . Just know it's just happening for a very limited time . If you're listening to this later you might have missed it , but stay on the lookout , get on the wait list , because we'll let you know when the next round comes through . That's my pitch for that . Nick . Where can people follow you ? You mentioned Instagram Just to learn more about your work , but also follow those cool behind the scenes you do for your speech .
Nicole HatherlyIt is so cool . Yes , so follow me on LinkedIn . It's Nicole Hathley and it's underscore . So Nicole Hathley underscore . The link will be in the show notes . And also you can follow me on LinkedIn . I'm prolific there as well , from a professional point of view , and you'll know how to connect with me there and go deeper as well . But find me on Instagram , find me on LinkedIn , say hi . We don't get out of our comfort zone by being comfortable . So come and say good day and if you're ever in Australia , look me up as well . I'll show you around and we'll cut a look a while or two .
Heather SagerI will . I will for sure be doing that . Hopefully other people will too . I am super bummed that I will not see you when you come to the States , as you are traveling literally over my due date , so I cannot fly to meet you where you'll be traveling . But I'll send pictures and it'll be great .
Nicole HatherlyOne day we will face time . You win with Leigh and the team , so we will be great with the baby , with the ball .
Heather SagerAll right , this is perfect . Nick , thank you so much for your generosity and sharing today and your experience , but also you shared a lot of really juicy like tactical tips that you snuck in there today around ways to become a more powerful speaker , ways to get more life out of your speaking gigs . You've been very generous today , thank you . Thank you so much , and y'all be sure to give her a follow on Instagram or LinkedIn . Let her know like what resonated with you . Give her lots of love , because I'm just so grateful for you waking up so early to make this happen .
Nicole HatherlyOh , and thanks for having me on . I think the power of our voice and just seeing that other people , what we go through behind the scenes . It's not easy , but Jesus , full of joy , that's the experience we're here to have on this planet together . Thank you , it is .
Heather SagerAll right , we hope you all enjoyed it as much as we did . I'll see you on next week's episode .
Unlocking Your Potential Through Speaking
Heather SagerThanks for listening to another episode of the hint of hustle podcast . If you're in the season of hustle , consider this the permission slip . You didn't need to take a beat . Go on a walk stretch , call a friend , go reheat that coffee for the fourth time and actually drink it . Because those big dreams you're chasing , they require the best version of you , and if those goals include expanding your audience , establishing your industry credibility and selling your premium price programs , the best way to tackle this is through speaking . Your voice is your best brand asset and will teach you how to use it as a marketing tool . Head on over to the speakercocom forward slash start and I'll see you there .
