How Kristina Bleiler Broke Her Own Rule and Started Teaching DIY Design [Refresh Series]

Episode 3 of the Spring Refresh Series

What if refreshing your business isn’t about changing everything — but simply making room for more of what you’re being called to do?

In this episode of The Ramble Refinery, I’m sitting down with brand designer and strategist Kristina Bleiler of Gem Creative Co. to unpack what it really looks like to expand your service-based business without walking away from what’s already working.

Kristina didn’t blow up her brand design studio. Instead, she added a whole new layer to it — a DIY branding course for solopreneurs who want to become their own creative directors.

Here’s the twist: Kristina once believed that branding had to be done-for-you to be effective. Like many experts, she thought DIY design couldn’t hold a candle to professional work. But over time, she challenged her own belief — flipped it upside down, actually — and built a program that now serves an entirely different group of buyers she once thought she couldn’t help.

You’ll hear:

• Why changing your stance doesn’t mean abandoning your expertise
• How Kristina created her DIY program without ditching her high-end branding clients
• What she had to learn (and unlearn) to go from expert designer to brand educator
• The subtle difference between coaching and consulting—and why she identifies as a brand tutor
• How to follow your curiosity and serve new audiences without losing your core identity
  
  

If you’ve ever felt pulled toward a new offer, format, or audience—but questioned whether it fits inside what you’ve already built—Kristina’s story is the gentle nudge to explore what’s possible. This one’s a must-listen if you’re asking yourself: Can I really do both?

EPISODE  SHOW NOTES👇
https://heathersager.com/episode240

Transcript

Heather (00:11)

Well, hey friend, and welcome to another episode of the Ramble Refinery. We are in our May spring refresh series. Top of the month, we kick things off with the idea of wanting to refresh things in your business. And before you make all these sweeping changes, get present to what your goals are and whether or not you actually need a brand refresh, or maybe you just need a nap, right? Maybe you don't need to overhaul your whole offer suite and offer structure. Maybe you just need to pause and get re-engaged with your clients and customers.

Maybe you just need a few tweaks, whatever that looks like, go back and listen to the kickoff of the series. Last week, we had a revisit conversation with my friend, Ellen Yin from Cubicle to CEO, where we were talking all about ⁓ being curious, asking great questions and pivoting with purpose. Side note, that phrase now totally, as I say it out loud, sounds like sounds like chat GPT. How many of you like...

thinking about this, sometimes I read things and I'm like, that screams ChachyPT. And, I don't know if it actually is ChachyPT. It just like, I've been in ChachyPT a fric ton lately and like, I'm now really starting to get the vibe of when something's written in ChachyPT. So I'm like hyper aware of it. I'm on a side tangent right now in the intro of this episode. So let's get back into it. Today, I am so, I am stoked.

And I use that phrase sparingly, but I'm stoked for you to hear this conversation today because it's like a breath of fresh air between two business owners chatting about the behind the scenes of ⁓ expanding and adding a program into a service-based business. So I'm interviewing Christina, is the head honcho over at Gem Creative Co. She's a designer, she's a brand strategist. She is incredibly talented.

She actually is the designer behind the brand of Cubicle to CEO. She's worked with Ellen. She's created the visuals for that brand. Like she's really good at what she does. But what really caught my eye after I started following Christina years ago is I noticed a shift in her lead messaging. I remember as a high-end designer, she was focused obviously on booking DIY, or not DIY, high-end like one-on-one clients to do the design for them.

But over the last 18 months, I noticed a shift where she introduced a course and a program that actually taught people how to be their own designer and brand strategist using Canva, which I don't know if you've noticed, but a lot of designers kind of have a beef with Canva, right? It's probably like how copywriters probably have a beef with ChatGPT or like think about any industry in general, right? We get into the episode, but I started noticing Christina talking about this, shift.

And she was really promoting her program, which I just love the way she did it. I'm always kind of a fly on the wall watching people's launches, seeing how they communicate, seeing how they position and message things. And she just did a brilliant job. But I was most curious around what led to her changing her stance on DIY education. And how did she incorporate that into her business? And now what does it look like now? How did she go through the process? How did she expand? I just wanted to have a real chat about it.

So I had asked, hey, would you like to talk about this? And yes, she said yes. And she she delivered this episode. It's incredible. She has lots of great insights. We talk about the difference between DIY education, the difference between coaching, consulting, what to think about when you're creating your programs. We talk about the skill of teaching and the unexpected skills you have to learn as you move from maybe one-on-one services into one-to-many style education.

We also talk about just challenging your own beliefs. We talk about that difference between being the up on your soapbox expert versus being truly a teacher and helping people get their results. We cover the gamut on a lot of things and I know you're going to love this conversation. At the end of it and also in the show notes, we'll connect you in all the places with Christina at GemCreativeCo. She also talks about, well, I'll save it for the end of the episode.

There's another creative project that she's working on right now that I think is really fun, refreshing, and I think might be just the thing that many of you need who are feeling called to do something a little new and different. ⁓ It might not actually be a business thing. So stick around for the last two minutes of the episode where Christina shares the new creative project she is encountering or embracing in this season of Life in Business.

And I think that might be a strategy that you might want to swipe if you're feeling the pull to do something new, but it just doesn't make sense inside your business. Okay, let's jump into the episode. You're going to love it. See you on the other side.

Heather (05:07)

I am so excited for this conversation. Christina, as I told you, when I reached out to you, I kind of had this idea percolating around wanting to talk to you about this specific topic based around me creeping your threads over the last year. Today, we're gonna talk about your pivot in business. And I not really this is necessarily a pivot, but just more of like, I don't know, rediscovery, a refresh in your business. So we're gonna get all into it.

But before we do, why don't you officially introduce yourself around what your company and then what you do.

Kristina Bleiler (05:42)

Hello, I am Christina. I am the owner of Gem Creative Co. I am primarily a brand designer and that's like my whole background. been a graphic designer, turned brand designer, and now I teach DIY branding as a large part of my business. I haven't stopped doing design, but I really love to support, especially solo business owners and brands where...

The expression is very tied to who they are. We wanna make sure that that is evident in the brand's expression. And so my process for both custom clients and DIY students, we really focus on self-discovery is actually a really, really big piece of the process and pulling out the hidden gems and making sure that people from the other side understand and see who they are just from seeing their brand.

Heather (06:36)

Yeah, I love that. And for you, when I first started following you online, was mutual introduction by one of our friends. You had done some design work. And I don't know if this is probably a normal thing, but for other people listening, anytime I hear someone or see someone online that I like respected, admire their work, and they tag the people behind the scenes who helped them build their brand, then I'm like, well, I need to follow that person. And so that's how I came into your world.

Kristina Bleiler (07:02)

you

Heather (07:04)

And the design work that you do is absolutely beautiful. So what had really caught my eye ⁓ was when you started talking about, well, you actually correct me if I'm wrong here. Do I remember a conversation that you had shared publicly where you were talking about being a done for you designer, right? You do the whole creative process with brands. Had you publicly talked about like how...

Branding was one of those things that you really need to hire an expert on that you didn't really see DIY working out great. You didn't use those language, right? But tell me like your old stance on DIY.

Kristina Bleiler (07:42)

Yeah, my old

stance was along the lines of you need a professional who knows what they're doing to do this for you. And one day you will want to invest in a custom brand designer. And I didn't love the fact, especially early on in my career, I didn't feel ⁓

comfortable about like Canva becoming popular because it was like, wow, that makes design so much more accessible and people don't know what they're doing with it. And I remember like, especially in college, went to school for visual communication design where it just felt like more like a threat. Like other people doing it themselves felt more like a threat. And over time, you know, I started my own business, started working with clients who use Canva. And I started, I saw how clients were really benefiting from.

their branding assets being in Canva and then designing their graphics there. I was like, wait a minute. Maybe it doesn't have to be like that way. Maybe there is a valid route in DIY. So.

Heather (08:50)

So this is what I love about it because I remember, mean, and I don't think your opinion around like design, I like, get it. I just think about how many experts, whether they're service providers or experts in their own niches, how many of them, like we have this silent like creep and fear that happens. They're like, no, somebody else is doing it. Or right now the big craze and talk is like AI is gonna take over. So copywriters went through the whole like, holy crap.

they're not gonna hire copywriters because they can train a chat bot and then it's now circled back to the chat bot actually doesn't do a really great job. So it's okay. Like it's, we all go through these different ebbs and flows and industries where I don't know. I don't know if you experienced this, but like earlier in my career, I felt the need to protect the value of my contributions. But the more that I gained wisdom,

aka got older, the more that I like let go and was a little bit more okay with there being space to play at different levels. Is that kind of what happened to you?

Kristina Bleiler (09:51)

yeah, definitely like the need to control. actually listened to your, one of your earlier podcast episodes, ⁓ where you talked about like how we feel so, ⁓ like we need to have control over our outcomes or control over different aspects of our business and the, like the solutions that I was offering, like I wanted to have sole control and wasn't sure if I handed off that control to someone who's taking a course from me, like if they'd be able to actually get results, whereas if I'm doing it myself, it's like, okay, I can

guarantee that I'm going to put in the work to get the results that people are wanting. yeah, definitely took a lot of like, ⁓ yeah, letting, letting go of control and trusting that my knowledge is also a good enough contribution.

Heather (10:38)

Yeah, I think that's really powerful. And I think there's something to be said in when we start our businesses, right? I do think that there is a lot of value in keeping that control really tight, right? Because we're still exploring what our brand is and what our service level is. We're still learning our customers and we're learning how we work. And I think a lot of times, even though our craft is really good, it hasn't necessarily been stretched in a lot of different.

⁓ industries or different business types. That's one of the things that I love about when you talk about your work, you've worked in so many different industries that you've really been able to stretch those muscles. And I think that is necessary to be able to move into the next era, which is like teaching or consulting or doing online education. So I think, I don't think that the being controlling or like holding it close to the chest and having that high end.

high touch business at first. I think that's the right business model. That's what I did for sure too, to start. So what I'm curious about for you, when did you start really percolating on this idea of maybe there is something there, maybe there is something there where I could switch my take on DIY being the devil, right? Or that like low end thing, right? That someday people would work with me, but like until then figure it out. I'm just like, when did that?

Kristina Bleiler (11:50)

I'm sorry.

Heather (11:59)

itch start scratching. That was a terrible way to phrase it.

Kristina Bleiler (12:02)

Yeah.

It was, I think it was about a year into running my own full-time branding business where I started to just feel sorry that I couldn't help people that couldn't afford to hire my custom services. So there was a little bit of like, like I wish I could help you, but like, I also like this takes a lot of work and I have to charge what I have to charge. And there was always like this special place in like,

my heart, as weird as that sounds like, where I was like, just felt for people that were in that stage or just felt, was feeling that gap. And that was just always kind of like growing in the back of my mind as I started to talk to potential leads and who was able to secure services with me versus who wasn't and why they weren't able to. ⁓ And the other part of it was I have been DIYing a ton of stuff.

in my own business, especially my marketing and taking programs, getting mentors, applying people's strategies, being taught how to use different kinds of tools. And it started to feel a little bit hyper, a hyper critical of me to be so pro DIY when it came to marketing and, and like that also just working out well for me versus like, why can't branding also, ⁓

have a, like, why can't I be a mentor for people who are DIYing their branding? I didn't really see a lot of that because the design industry, I think the talk around it is it's just not something you can DIY. But the more I saw how my clients were using Canva and creating some of their own graphics, I started to kind of dabble in Canva and started to see what's possible in there. yeah, it was, got to the point where was like, I can't ignore my

Heather (13:44)

Yeah.

Kristina Bleiler (14:00)

like organically evolved perspectives on this. And if I see that there's a gap and if I really feel for the people that are in that gap, why can't I just come up with a solution to meet them?

Heather (14:13)

Yeah, I love that you said that. I don't think it's cheesy or weird at all, right? To feel this, like what they say they call it, like the bleeding heart piece, like feeling pulled, or I use the expression, feeling called to a certain like area of your business or a certain group of people or a certain message. I think there's value with that. And it is really interesting, right? Because like traditional business coaches in our space, they would probably argue against that and say, no, you got to double down on the one offer.

focus on your like high premium niche. And I think there is truth of that. And there, when you have this tug and you have this question being like courageous enough to explore it, I think it's really brave. I think it's really brave for a lot of reasons. But I think what it comes back to, and this is why I feel like a lot of people really get misguided when it comes to asking, should I pivot in my business? Should I do this other thing? Like there's all these should questions. And I think it comes back to,

like the under rooted, this is cheesy, but like the why behind it is like why we're in business and what our goals are in business. And if like the number one goal is how can I make as much money as possible, right? Then the answer to that question becomes clear. Like, well, I can charge more or I could do a cheaper product and help more people, right? Use the math equation. But what you're really speaking to is you felt this.

bigger sense of like a bigger why of wanting to help more people, but like a specific group of people, which I don't know. That was the message that when I, don't even remember what thread I read or what series of threads. I was probably watching one of your low key launches and just how you shared your like shift in how you felt about DIY to how you now feel about DIY. It was just really refreshing because I think a lot of people, especially in our industry are unwilling.

to challenge their own beliefs. And I just freaking mad respect for you for not only challenging your own belief, but then making that a public message as like a pillar for your launch. I just thought that was really freaking cool.

Kristina Bleiler (16:17)

Yeah, and I also felt it was important to do that because the industry as a whole has a different, tends to have a different narrative message ⁓ around it. And I felt like it really needed to become ⁓ like a relatable story where, listen, I'm DIYing, other people should be allowed to DIY too. I can't stand on this pedestal of you need to hire me when I'm not.

hiring marketers to do it all for me. And I just, feel like being honest about like how my perspective has changed has allowed me to really connect with people on that level who are in that space because I've been there in a different way.

Heather (17:02)

Yeah.

Well, and I think as someone, right, I'm not a brand designer, but I'm pretty damn good at like branding and graphics. And I have like a very weird background that actually serves into being able to do it. But every time I had talked to, like had a conversation with a high-end designer who only did done for you work, there was this subtle, I'll say this very carefully, but there was this subtle almost like, yeah, cute, tap you on the head. Good for you.

you used to work at photography studio, like good for you, but like, I know the design principles and I'm worth the wait and I'm better at strategy. And none of those things were actually said, but it was implicit in the questions and in the language. And there was a little bit of that. And it's one of those things that in the position of being the person who would hire a brand strategist, like I can see value in that and...

I also have my own objections, and I also have my own experience, and I also have my own interpretations. And so I just love the fact that you one challenge that of going, hold on, I'm scrappy, I'm DIY. Other people also probably have skills. What was cool was instead of you taking your like stellar experience and your eye for design, and instead of you keeping it close to your chest, you said, how can I equip more people who think like me?

Kristina Bleiler (18:08)

Thank you.

Heather (18:25)

and more people who are pulled to my brand or resonate with my branding, how could I teach them to create magic on their own with some tools? And I just thought, what a great example of that difference between scarcity thinking and abundance thinking. What a beautiful example of that. So walk me through, how did you...

get those ideas out of your head and start asking the question, like, how the hell would I even teach this to people? Right? Because it's like the magic that's in your head.

Kristina Bleiler (18:55)

you

Yeah, the process of actually creating this, especially because branding is such a creative outcome and there's honestly so many directions. mean, infinite directions you could take. One person can take their brand, let alone all these people different things. Taking my course, it really did take a lot of time to sit with kind of working backwards ⁓ how to...

Heather (19:07)

Yeah.

Kristina Bleiler (19:21)

really break this down and simplify or just streamline the process for someone who doesn't know anything about this or didn't go to school for it or hasn't had any experience. What are the step-by-step lessons that need to be in here ⁓ to help them start thinking differently? And I think that was probably the crux of it was it's not just about how to use these tools better. It's how do I start thinking like the creative director of my brand? And my messaging actually started to shift.

After I launched it a couple of times, my messaging started to shift towards becoming like the creative director of your brand because I was noticing that there were students who were joining not just because they're trying to save money and get some help.

they were joining because they genuinely did want to be like a creative director for their brands. They wanted control over those outcomes. They wanted to make those decisions and not have to rely on someone where there was, there's actually just people that probably could have afforded custom services, but then ultimately decided, no, I do want to operate from that head space for my brand. ⁓ And so yeah, it was the, I would say in terms of like actually building it, I probably rewrote the outline of the course, like,

I don't know, at least five times. Yeah. And, I really had to create frameworks for each part of what I was teaching because before it was just kind of living in my head. was kind of like more intuitive or just, I didn't really have, ⁓ I guess like different categories for the ways in which I make decisions. And I had to help create like a spectrum or like categories for people to help make decisions for their brands.

Heather (20:38)

Yeah, we've all been there.

Yeah, I think that's something that's really important. We'll go out like that geeky side tangent here for a second. I think people underestimate how difficult it is to teach people how to think, right? So many people, when they think courses or they think of like a digital product, we start focusing on, just tell people what to do. And some of that, like sometimes we have to do that, but the most powerful education and what you're talking about is people stepping into an identity.

Kristina Bleiler (21:04)

That was the bit.

Heather (21:29)

which is like becoming that creative director, which is a role they'll play in their business. That's not a series of tasks. That is teaching them how to think more strategically, right? And so I like that, how you're talking about creating frameworks for people. What I always think about is like, okay, I have young kids at home and years ago I bought these like trays from Ikea that instead of like big giant plates, I got rid of all of our plates and we just have these plastic.

trays at home and they have little compartments on it that and so now like when I serve my kids food or they like serve themselves up for lunch they have these little compartments that they essentially put their food in they know which one's for the vegetables which one's for the like the snack or the tree and then which is like the main and what it's essentially doing is giving them a framework for eating they know like how much food do I serve up like how much space do I have dedicated for this particular type of food but you're like training people

like the containers for information so that people can then do it successfully on their own. So I love that you brought up the idea of frameworks, right? To be able to teach people the thinking piece because I think a lot of people like skip that part and then they wonder, okay, how do I actually teach people and they focus on the doing. So is that something that you learned like from in a class? Did you seek out help for that or is that something that your brain started thinking through it in that way?

Kristina Bleiler (22:53)

It was just the way that I kind of observed my own learning habits. I've been through so many programs and I've, I was a pretty good student in school. I was a tutor first, a period of time I tutored in college, ⁓ tutored math actually, unexpectedly. Like math is not my thing.

But what I found is I am a very slow learner and need to really study and sit with information and like almost reteach it to myself where I in school, and I think that's what made me a good tutor, was I was always rewriting my notes and like using highlighters and essentially just reabsorbing information in different ways so that I could understand it. And I think that that...

just, guess that natural way of me studying has made me very observant of how I learn and what things really benefit me as someone who's been in so many courses. And ⁓ I just went about it that way because, just keeping in mind, know, there's different learning styles. I need something that's really gonna help meet people where they're at. And so it's funny, some of my students now like have kind of adopted the name, like I'm a brand tutor.

And I just love that. It's just kind of a callback too. And it's also why my branding for the program is very school themed.

Heather (24:17)

Yeah, okay, love that whole piece. Like I had forgotten about the branding of it. I remember really loving that when you were like, I think it was your last launch that you had done or you're wrapping up the program, which we're gonna talk about in a moment. ⁓ But I like that you poured the whole theme into it, which of course very much fits your style and putting a theme around it and branding the whole thing. You know what, I just had like a realization moment as you were talking earlier when you were talking about how like,

making design more accessible and how we were talking about sometimes we put ourselves on a pedestal or our ⁓ niche on a pedestal, right? And it's not necessarily accessible for the everyday person. I just had this moment of clicking as you were talking around learning styles and how you're structuring things out. And what clicked for me is my background is running educational programs.

So working with instruction designers, working with trainers, like I used to manage a whole department of trainers and instruction designers to create curriculum. And the thing that I learned very early on in managing learning teams was I chose intentionally not to hire instruction designers and trainers because they have this thinking in their head of the right way to learn and adult learning theory and blah, must do it this way.

And I talk to people like everyday freaking humans. And like I use adult learning theory, but I don't overly engineer things for the sake of learning theory. I then like read the room and design based off of the room. So I just had the light bulb click of I am to instruction design as you are to branding. And I hadn't even put you two together, but I think that's like,

I think that's what people are craving now more than ever is they want experts for the experience, but they don't want experts for like the status. People want to learn from people who are experts, but they don't want to feel like they're being talked down to. So thank you for that little like side tangent reflection there that I think you're really cornering the market on doing that really, really well of maybe the term accessible is a little overused, but I like.

Kristina Bleiler (26:19)

Hmm. ⁓

Heather (26:32)

I like playing in that field because it makes people feel really welcome and it makes people like we don't none of us want to feel stupid or talk down on or feel like we're in a process. So how you Yeah.

Kristina Bleiler (26:40)

Yeah, that was a big part of messaging. Like a really

big part is I wanted to make sure people were really validated and this is a very valid route to take.

Heather (26:48)

Yeah, it's not like they're feeling like, I couldn't afford the good stuff, so this will have to do. I think like the doing it themselves, people learn a skill when you're going through some kind of like DIY program or even done with you program, right? There is high value in learning a skill, especially if it's something that you're going to use in multiple places within your business, which is what you're talking about with that creative director role.

Talk to me a little bit, how did you decide to structure it? Is it fully a DIY? Is it like a program where you also support them? Tell me, how did you figure out how to structure it?

Kristina Bleiler (27:26)

I started it out just ⁓ like a program. I wanted to be, make sure I was involved in seeing how people's progress was and if it was working. did a whole beta group at first. And that, from there, I started to see, okay, you know what? I think I can sell this as a ⁓ DIY course without me as another option. If people didn't want to...

you know, invest in the course, the program part of it and get support from me. And I, so I still launch the group program as an option and then it's like almost like a down sell or just like, you know, an alternative route. They can just take it themselves. And I have found that people that are taking just the course still have been seeing progress and results through it. I'm just less connected. And so I have been actually meaning to reach out.

to them and just kind of check in because I am very curious how the process is when it's just fully DIY. For the most part though, I focus more on selling the program portion because there is a little bit more of a creative exchange happening. They take the course lessons, which are all pre-recorded, and then they have access to me in a group chat and we have some calls.

and I give them feedback and I'll often, I'll very often offer additional ideas that their work and their progress sparked for me to kind of like fuel the process and expand the process for them. So again, it's more than just like getting feedback or answering questions. It's, ⁓ this thing that you just did made me think of this. What do you think of that? And then, let's try that. what about this idea? There's a little bit more of a collaborative.

creative exchange happening within the group program. ⁓ And there's more accountability, of course. know, I'm every week, I'm checking in on things and we get to do like demonstrations. Like I might show someone how to do this one thing in Canva that they're ⁓ unsure about because my course itself doesn't do a comprehensive Canva how to. ⁓ It's

Heather (29:40)

Yeah, and Canva

honestly changes so much that would be really hard to keep up with.

Kristina Bleiler (29:45)

Yeah. And so there's definitely a good amount of back and forth that happens in the program. And I love it. very, it's really fun for me to be involved and to see the process unfold and to see people get curious about their brands and the things that they want to highlight and the light bulb moments. It's really fun.

Heather (30:09)

how for you, like thinking about the, when you're doing design for a client, right? Versus when you're having that creative exchange with your students in your program, is that like firing off that same creative energy for you? Is it like those two things really different? I'm just curious about how that's like, okay, you know, like the term a runner's high. I would imagine we all have our own version of that in the work we do. Like what's the high difference between those two things for you?

Kristina Bleiler (30:31)

Yeah.

Definitely

feels really different. is still, it still feels like an exchange because my clients themselves are a large source of my inspiration when I'm working on things. ⁓ It's not like they're isolated from the process. I'm still updating them weekly. Like I'll usually give a weekly update at the end of the week of where I'm at on things. I send presentations, they give their feedback. The difference is just I'm responsible for.

for all of it. And obviously I have more control over the outcomes, but it's not like I'm doing it completely isolated. Like they get to give their feedback and thoughts too. It's kind of, it's almost like reversed. It's almost like the roles are reversed where when I'm with my students in my DIY program, it's almost like, it's almost like I'm the client giving feedback, even though I'm not, even though they're doing it for themselves. Whereas when I'm working with my clients, ⁓

it all and they're the ones offering the feedback that leads to more creative ideas along the way.

Heather (31:39)

Yeah.

Is that like shift in the roles? Was that surprising at all for you? Like, is there anything as you've been navigating the program, anything that's popped up that you're like, I didn't think that I would enjoy this as much as I do.

Kristina Bleiler (31:50)

Yeah, I was a little bit nervous about if I, if I could kind of take on this coaching role. think I was intimidated by the idea of being a coach. I still don't really call myself that even though I do think I've gotten better at ⁓ the coaching side where I've been able to help call attention to where root problems are arising and help kind of ask the right questions for people to figure out the answers to things. I would say I operate more as a consultant with my students though.

Heather (31:58)

Yeah.

Kristina Bleiler (32:21)

And I really prefer, I think I prefer that realm. I definitely think, calling back to what you saying earlier about working with so many industries, I definitely think my experience having worked one-on-one with so many different types of businesses really helped me be able to come up with answers or ⁓ help solve problems with students in a way that didn't require me to do it for them. So.

It was definitely something intimidating. I was worried about being a bad educator. I was worried about being a bad ⁓ mentor. And it turns out that ⁓ it's just another version of my creative role. And I have had enough experience to direct people, yeah, on the right path.

Heather (33:06)

Yeah.

I love that you called out that that your relationship with the word coach. It's funny, right? In this education industry online, people kind of fly that term around all this time. And I would argue that the majority of coaching that people say that they're doing is not coaching, it's consulting, or it's just like question and answer. So I love that you distinguish that you act as more of a consultant in business. That's like a word that I use a lot too, right? I have coaching and I have consulting services and they're they're not the same thing. And

So I think that's something like just thinking for people that are listening, thinking about their own potential pivots or changes or enhancement their business. Talk to me a little bit more around what you see as that like role of consulting and why you really adopted that as your thing.

Kristina Bleiler (33:59)

Yeah, I like being able to help offer solutions. I like being able to give ideas, give examples. ⁓ I'm just, I'm a very ⁓ visual kind of experiential learner and it really helps me to kind of relate back what I'm feeling or noticing or what I would do in that situation sort of thing ⁓ versus

⁓ I don't even know how to describe what coaching is. That's why I'm still kind of like.

Heather (34:31)

I'll make it like the simple. So coaching

out of purest form, like a coach does not give any answers. A coach asks questions so that people can arrive at their own answers. And I would say of the coaching that I've ever experienced, that only happens maybe 5 % of the time. And like, so that's where it's like true coaching is like you think about like a coach for sports teams, coaches aren't on the field.

Kristina Bleiler (34:37)

Yeah.

Heather (34:54)

Right? The players are the ones in the game. so yeah, coaches might be making calls or like switching players out, but the players are playing the game. And so true coaching is actually asking questions so that someone can arrive at their own like answers. But what you're describing spot on is consulting and it's mentorship and how you described it earlier, the brand tutor, right? Of helping people like study their brand and then be able to, to create it. Like, I just really loved how you described that. And I

I think more people should like claim that role of it's okay to say like, hey, I'm a consultant or I do like advisory level services or that kind of phrasing because people do want consulting, but I think a lot of people think that that's coaching and it's totally not.

Kristina Bleiler (35:39)

Yeah, and I like being able to just get right to the point and just say the things that are coming to mind for me based on my experience. And to me, just flows much more naturally than, like, I feel like I have to hold back if I'm to just try to figure out what the right question is to ask. And I don't want to have to hold that back, so.

Heather (35:46)

Yeah.

Well,

and that's not why they're coming to you. think actually this is a really, really important point of discussion here is they're coming to you because you're an expert, right? You have a breadth of experience designing for brands, creating like brand strategy. I mean, doing actual design, like that you have a wealth of knowledge and wealth of experience and they're wanting to know how can I extract from that to make my brand stronger? So yeah.

Kristina Bleiler (36:21)

And I'm still in the field too. Like I'm still working

with clients right now. So, and I intend to keep doing that because I want to stay sharp when I'm teaching, you know, students how to do things themselves. And it is probably going to evolve over time. And so yeah, definitely think that is another difference too, is the fact that I'm still very much working one-on-one with clients.

Heather (36:25)

Yeah.

Yeah, I think that's really, I think that's really a powerful point is that's something that I always find too when I'm still working with one of my one-on-one clients, when I jump into my group program, I have this like new sense of, is not the right word, but like ⁓ this like instant relevance.

of like just working through a really specific problem or a very specific thing, like being able to come with a specific of here's something that's happening in real time and then be able to apply it to the group. One, people love that because it's timely, but two, it forces me to anchor into more specifics. And I always find like in group programs, the more specific things, even if you think it's so specific, it's not going to apply to people, specifics actually apply to way more people because it fires off in their brain,

that's not me, but I have something kind of like that and everyone's tying their own specifics to it. So I do think either staying in communication with your audience one-on-one or working one-on-one with people, I think it makes everybody better in group programs. So I love that you're still doing that.

Kristina Bleiler (37:46)

Yeah, and when you were describing, when we first started this conversation of like, what would we call it? Is it a business pivot? Is it a business refresh? I would call it an expansion. Like it was definitely moving beyond what I'm currently doing, not leaving what I'm currently doing, but it's almost like they both still kind of interact with each other and they're both part of the same like overall goal and helping people do something similar just in different methods and different deliveries.

Heather (37:56)

Yeah.

Yeah. And for you, I would imagine it's really taken ⁓ shifting your skill set, right? So being a designer or being a strategist, like working one-on-one and building those relationships, you can use that skill set, of course, but you had to probably adopt some additional skills as you were expanding into courses and programs. So does it even come to mind for you of like things that you're like, ⁓ shit, I don't know how to do this, or I got to figure this out a little bit more. Like what skills have you acquired over the last couple of years?

Kristina Bleiler (38:43)

I would say a really big one is creating a lesson between planning the lesson, creating the slides, recording it, and trying to, I wouldn't say simplify, but just streamline information in a very palatable way versus.

just like putting a bunch of knowledge into a video. That is a skill, like creating a really solid lesson that can be easily implementable. That's one of the biggest things too, is like a lot of my lessons have immediate like homework activities and tools to make it immediately ⁓ actionable. That was definitely something new that I hadn't done before. ⁓ And I spent a ton of time.

It probably took me several hours just to make a 15 minute lesson. And I purposely wanted my lessons to be more like condensed, obviously like they're very potent, but they're condensed. ⁓ That was definitely a skill. And then obviously there's like still like the tech side of creating a course. ⁓ The skill of talking about and promoting courses is definitely different than

promoting one-on-one services, getting people in the doors for a group program is a very different, it's still marketing. Like marketing is marketing, but there's more volume that you need to reach when it comes to getting people to all sign up at the same time for a group program. So yeah, I would say the creation of the course content and the marketing of it were the...

and I'm still learning, but those are the newest skills that as a done-for-you service provider, I didn't have to think about before.

Heather (40:35)

Yeah, I think those are two of the two things that we know, right? But until you actually are put in a position where you have to apply the skills that you either have or don't, ⁓ there's a big learning curve for it. But the skill of like creating a lesson, right? That's like actual teaching. Then it's funny, I was on a call last week in my corporate speaking accelerator. There was one of my students, we were working on her workshop that she's gonna be selling to companies. And we had this big, what you were describing, this big

distinguishing shifts, right? There is a difference between teaching people information because you're the expert and you want them to know so that they love your topic just as much as you do or that they're as excited about it. But that's not really helpful in this kind of course where people are actually going towards a transformation. People wanna know how to do something. What's that knowledge actually going to do for them? And that is, like I say that out loud and it's like an immediate head nod and everyone's like, yeah, yes, we have to be teaching them to do something.

But what happens is when we're so good at what we do and we start outlining our ideas, we literally go into the mode of what do I want to tell them? What do I want to like share with them? And we kind of abandoned that whole, okay, hold on, but how will they use it? And the actual lesson needs to be about the application. And we have to almost like, I don't know if you experienced this, but we need to be better at filtering and holding back. And we actually, and this is where, when I teach like how to build a talk,

Kristina Bleiler (41:42)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Heather (42:02)

The number one filter we need to apply to a talk is like, what is the one core message? And it runs as a filter and we have to then ask every single idea that we have, is it strengthening the message or is it diluting the message? And that's probably the biggest challenge that people have in the skill of teaching is they dilute the crap out of their point. And so it becomes really difficult to help people get results in their program. So I love that you brought up that skill of teaching because

Kristina Bleiler (42:18)

Yeah.

Heather (42:31)

It sounds simple. It's not.

Kristina Bleiler (42:34)

Yeah.

And I don't want to overwhelm people that because I get easily overwhelmed. If something is, if, if, if I'm approaching a course where there's a lesson, that's like an hour long and like, will get overwhelmed. And so I had those things in mind. What would I need if I'm taking a course and how can I deliver in a way that's, you know, pretty, pretty easy to apply.

Heather (42:56)

I'm sure anyone who is in the instruction design arena listening to this episode is ready to like reach the microphone and kill me right now. Like how overly simplistic we're making all of this. But I think that is the point is like, is I think experts online and for those of us who have run businesses based around our experience, whether it's services or coaching or consulting, we all need to be better teachers. And so I think that

Kristina Bleiler (43:06)

Yeah.

Heather (43:20)

helping people learn how to teach better, how to communicate better, for you helping people learn how to design and build their brands better, it's only going to help our industry more. It helps the people that we serve be more successful. Okay, so I love that. Were there any fears that you had when you had this initial idea where you're like, I think I'm gonna expand into like a program? Did you have any big like fears or apprehensions around how it was going to go?

Kristina Bleiler (43:31)

Yeah.

Definitely a bigger one was am I actually going to be a good teacher at this? I, is it actually going to work for people? Because I have not seen other DIY branding programs for one. I really haven't seen any that exist or any results that have come from it. And I think a lot of people believed that, and I actually had some people tell me that they were hesitant to join at first because they weren't sure if they believed it was possible to actually learn these things and if they're not like,

naturally creative sort of thing. And that was a question. That was a fear. Like what if they're right? What if it doesn't work out? And I just spent all this time creating a course that ultimately like maybe it's not possible. And I just had to trust that my, that my knowledge was going to be transferable. It just, took a lot of just self-trust and time to sit with it, conversations with people and,

I did a lot of one-on-one consulting with clients where I got a little bit more clear on the points of confusion and the difficulties where that helped me build the content for the course. ⁓ And so, yeah, the biggest fear was like, okay, is this even gonna get results if I'm teaching someone who's not seasoned in this area? That was the biggest fear.

Heather (45:11)

Yeah. And did you have a moment as you were actually, the course was out, right? You're, leading it in real time with your beta group. Did you have a moment where you were like, shit, this is actually really good. It's working. Like,

Kristina Bleiler (45:24)

Yeah, it honestly didn't take very long because like for me to feel like it was working because pretty much immediately right away I was getting positive feedback from even just like the first few lessons where like a lot of light bulbs were light bulb moments were happening just from like the initial just like self discovery process. When it got to like the design area that's where I had the most fears around like how like visual branding those decisions how that's gonna come out.

And I do think after running it a few times, I've been able to refine those visual lessons, especially even more. ⁓ But I'm just so impressed with what my students have done, like genuinely really impressed with their results and their willingness. another thing is it does take for DIYers willingness to trust themselves to try new things. And I had some fears of like, people gonna just ultimately feel intimidated to even try these ideas?

Cause I sometimes I'll offer things within the group chat where I'm not sure if they'll like that idea or if they're like not sure if it's for them and seeing people just explore and try things, even if something doesn't go the way they expected to and then try something else, that's all part of the process. And that is something that I've learned to kind of affirm and ⁓ also just like create expectation around. Like it's going to feel like a process. It's gonna feel like an exploration. You might not run with your first idea.

but that's part of the process and it doesn't intimidate me, it doesn't intimidate them anymore because I've seen it all work, all come together in the end, like it always does. And it's how it is for me when I'm working one-on-one with clients. Like it's a process for me every time. My first idea isn't always the best one and I just treat it like an exploration process and it always kind of comes together the more you sit with it and explore.

Heather (47:18)

I love your attitude around this and you're doing a really good job of taking the how you feel, right? And not letting that hold you back, but being able to say, can I use that to anticipate how my students would feel so I can empathize with them and guide them through it? Because you literally in real time, right? Went through your own fears of like, can I even do this? And they're experiencing their own version of can I even do this? And I think that's kind of a myth that a lot of experts.

forget, right? When we're in our problem and we're having our own fears, the phrase I say all the freaking time on the show is, you're exactly where you need to be to learn the lessons you must learn for what's coming in your next chapter. And my favorite hot seats when I'm working with clients is like, they're struggling with something and I'm like, I know this sucks right now, but my gosh, I cannot wait for you to be on the other side of this because this right here is what you're going to be coaching your clients on.

Kristina Bleiler (48:09)

Mm-hmm.

Heather (48:09)

Like whatever

biggest struggle you have guaranteed it translates to the clients you work with. And you just demonstrated that beautifully of like you getting through that fear was you then being able to model and anticipate their fears. ⁓ I just love that. ⁓

Kristina Bleiler (48:21)

And during my beta

group, I'll just add during my beta group, I was actually branding the program in Canva while they were also doing their own brands. So when I first marketed brand ad, it was just like some basic, it was just general under my own gem creative co-brand.

used it as a selling point, kind of like, I'm gonna be creating the branding for this program using only DIY tools. So it was with my beta group, I was going through the process kind of with them and using Canva, didn't use any Adobe tools, cause I wanted to really put myself in their position and embody that. And that has gone a long way, even in just my own marketing around it is, hey, look, the branding of this program is proof that this can be done in Canva and it doesn't need pro design tools. So.

Heather (48:55)

Yeah.

I love that. I love that. think that's one of those things like anytime you have the opportunity to be able to model what you're doing in real time, like, oh, that's genius. I'm curious if you were, let's see now it's May of 2025. When did you first have this little thought, like by little thought, mean like a little whisper, right? Of like, maybe I should do this. When did the idea first come to you to lean into this DIY branding?

Kristina Bleiler (49:14)

put myself in that position.

I will say the idea of having a course came within the first year of business, which was like May 2022.

Heather (49:51)

Okay, so it hasn't been

a long time. So if you think about like, if you present Christina or to speak back to 2022 Christina, who was, I'm not really sure on this or just thinking about this idea of potentially expanding the brand in this area, what do you wish that she would have known?

Kristina Bleiler (50:11)

At the time, I wasn't sure if the course was even going to be fully DIY branding. I thought the course was just gonna be like how to manage your brand after someone's made it for you. So I would tell her at that point, think bigger and deeper. There's more to uncover here. There's a bigger problem you can be solving here. And then I would say that the year after that is when I actually had...

Heather (50:21)

Yeah.

Kristina Bleiler (50:36)

you know, the idea of like, okay, you know what? I'm gonna go full blown DIY branding. And it took some time to really warm up to that concept. ⁓ So I would tell her to, ⁓ yeah, dig a little bit deeper and really pay attention to the need that you're seeing in like your business and the people around you.

Heather (51:01)

love it. And is there anything that you would add for anyone who might be listening, thinking about their own pivot? I've been having a lot of conversations with business owners who are thinking about either like repackaging up their course into a DIY versus a program, or they're thinking like, maybe I want to just move to a program or like, I think a lot of people are navigating, should I make a change? any, like any advice you would give to them if they're like in that, I'm not quite sure what to do next category.

Kristina Bleiler (51:26)

Yeah, I would say talk to your people, have some one-on-one conversations to see if there is a need for something that you're considering and starting small with like a beta group is really, really helpful. And also, also asking yourself, like, is my heart here? Like, is this something that I feel really like?

excited about when I think about it and not just am I doing this because there's a need or like because I think I'm supposed to or I'm seeing other people have courses I'm seeing other people expand into these things and like is that how I'm gonna be making extra money in my business it really does need to be tied to ⁓ if you are really personally passionate about this direction and if you if you you know think ahead to your future self like

Would you be really proud of that person in the future if they did pull off what you're thinking of doing? Would you really genuinely be proud that you've contributed this back to your industry?

Heather (52:31)

I love that take on it. I think that that's probably the most powerful question that I think we all need to ask as we're exploring the pivots because I think you're spot on. I think a lot of people are thinking, what am I supposed to do? What is that next step? What are the different ways I can math it to my goal? And that could work.

Right? But like asking that question around what am I going to be really proud of in the next three years, five years? It's pretty incredible how much we can accomplish in such a short amount of time. mean, think about for you starting in 2022 and then creating this idea in 2023. And now here we are having a conversation about it, which I think is beautiful. Last question for you as this whole thing stemmed from you having the courage to like challenge your own thinking of it. How are you continually challenge yourself and challenging your thinking and like

embracing this idea of expansion for your business and life in general.

Kristina Bleiler (53:24)

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, this has been on my mind recently because I am sensing in my own brand as a whole, some, think that refinement stage is what I'm in right now. I think you mentioned this on a previous podcast episode, being in that refinement stage and a little bit of realignment too, where I feel like my overarching brand. ⁓

needs to represent now these two different sides of my business where it's, it's not quite like, feel like my overarching brand and website is still kind of reflecting the service provider mostly in me. and I've also just been kind of drawn to sharing more personal stories. I started a sub stack that I am dabbling very slightly dabbling in, and I don't even know where it's going to go. And I think that that's kind of the point is just to allow myself to like,

paying attention to where I want to be expressing myself, what topics, what things need a place to be to exist, and ⁓ leaning into that, letting myself put things out there. And even though my sub stack is a little bit more personal, I'm feeling really drawn to bringing those personal aspects out a little bit more in business so people can see what has shaped my perspectives and where I've come from.

And so just always being in tune and just aware of the things that I can't ignore that are in my head that I just need to express and need to explore. ⁓ That is an ongoing practice, I would say, that ⁓ I really love to just express myself and be seen in a way that feels really, really true to how I'm feeling right now.

Heather (55:15)

Okay, I love that this conversation is everything that I hoped it would be and then some today. Getting back to the heart of change in business. ⁓ I love it. I appreciate you sharing so openly today and just giving really great insight, right, into the changes that we all go through. Where's the best place for people to connect with you, either to learn more about your Done For You services in your agency or in your program where they can do it themselves?

Kristina Bleiler (55:41)

Yeah, my main hub, would say, well, it's actually both Instagram and threads now. I'm pretty active on threads. So at gemcreativeco is my handle for Instagram and threads, and that's where I'm mostly showing up online. ⁓ And my website, if you wanted to learn more about my program, it would be gemcreative.co slash brand dash ed. ⁓

Heather (56:09)

We'll link to that in the show notes to make it easy. Can we also like stock your sub stack? Is that a link that we can share too? we'll handle it. We'll handle it.

Kristina Bleiler (56:11)

Yeah.

Yeah, that I don't know the exact link memorized. Yeah,

that gets into more personal, a little more vulnerable sides of like my background and why I'm someone who really loves to challenge my perspectives and how it really has, I guess, my creativity. Like my creativity definitely comes from a place of ⁓ trusting my curiosity. And so that's a good place to go if you're curious about that.

Heather (56:42)

I love that. Well, and it actually is a really great ⁓ connection to last week's episode, I restreamed my interview with Ellen Yin, and it was all around curiosity and making pivots. So that's actually a really beautiful tie to our May refresh series. So look at that. Look at that.

Kristina Bleiler (56:57)

love that.

love Ellen's actually a client. did her branding a few years ago.

Heather (57:02)

And that

is the mutual friend that initially of how we, how we connected. what a beautiful little tie in there. Okay. Christina, thank you. Thank you so much one for making the space for this interview today. But again, sharing so openly, I can't wait for people to hear this because there are just so many. Like big things, but also little things that we talked about today that will, think, resonate a lot that we're all in this transition of trying to figure out how do we both build a business?

and like business model that obviously is sustainable and can grow and support the lifestyle we want. But I really love that you brought into this conversation this whole idea of like heart and like feeling called or feeling pulled to do something and being proud of it and exploring your own curiosities and growing your own skillset. Like I really think that business can do.

Kristina Bleiler (57:40)

Yeah.

Heather (57:51)

both and I just love the like holistic view of that today. If you all like you're very wise around how you think about business. I don't know if you've ever noticed that about yourself, but you have a great way of approaching

Kristina Bleiler (57:57)

Thanks.

Well, thank you. That's very affirming.

just thank you for having me. This is such an honor to be on this and have this conversation. I love conversations like this.

Heather (58:11)

Well, there it is. There's my conversation with Christina from Gem Creative Co. about her journey expanding into DIY courses and programs. I love that conversation. Here it is a couple days later since Christina and I chatted and it's it's still ruminating in my head around how sometimes just having the courage to explore a simple curiosity, how that really could be a seed planted.

to something much bigger. So if you're in a season where you're thinking about expanding your business, if you're thinking about expanding your product suite, or maybe you're feeling a little courageous in challenging your own opinions on your own industry or challenging the way that you've already like always done things, tis the season, my friend. I think that's probably my favorite takeaway from this conversation is.

Sometimes pivots, sometimes expansions, sometimes ideas in business. It's not necessarily about chasing trends or seeing what other people are doing, but rather asking yourself questions around is how I'm actually operating right now and is what I'm offering in my business and the way I'm offering it, is it in alignment with my values and is it in alignment with what lights me up and who I want to serve?

And asking those questions starts the brainstorming conversation, I think in a really beautiful and as cheesy as it sounds aligned way. those are the business evolutions that I'm here for. I can honestly say every single one of my evolutions started, well, it probably started with a random idea, right? But then I teamed it down and I anchored it in real deep questions around

what I wanted my business to feel like and honoring the season of life that I'm in. So with that, we'll be back next week with another interview behind the scenes of refreshes in business. I hope you're enjoying this series. Be sure, like, if you liked this episode, share it with a friend. As always, shout out on Instagram. I'd love to hear from you. Love to know what resonated with you today. But wrap it up. Congratulations. You just finished another episode of the Ramble Refinery. ⁓ If you want to get started with your speaking journey, if you want to become a more magnetic communicator, if you want to be more intentional with how you teach, how you show up, how you lead, you can get started at heathersaker.com. All right, friend, talk to you next week.