What If Stress Is Driving Your Business Decisions? With Rebecca Vigelius [Refresh Series]

Episode 4 of the Spring Refresh Series

You already know when it’s time to make a change. But what if the way you’re deciding is the real problem?

In this episode of The Ramble Refinery, I’m joined by my client and friend Rebecca Vigelius, a former VP turned copywriter turned certified neurosomatic intelligence practitioner and stress coach. We dive into the untold truth behind her bold business pivot—one that was less about courage and more about capacity.

This isn’t just another “follow your passion” rebrand story. It’s a grounded, inside-out conversation about how stress—especially the kind we don’t realize we’re carrying—can hijack our clarity, our creativity, and our momentum.

We talk about:

• Why Rebecca actually left her copywriting agency (hint: it wasn’t just burnout)
• How a tech disaster forced her hand—and revealed her next-level direction
• The sneaky ways stress shows up in decision-making (even when you “feel fine”)
• What capacity really means—and how to create more of it without blowing up your life
• Why emotional regulation is the real secret weapon behind calm, confident evolution

We also unpack what it means to grow from clarity—not pressure—and how to make space for better decisions, better messaging, and a better version of your work.

Whether you’re in a pivot, considering a new offer, or just feeling overloaded by ideas—you’ll walk away from this episode feeling seen, validated, and maybe even a little unbothered.

Mentioned in this episode:

• Rebecca’s free tool: The Unbothered Entrepreneur Blueprint
• My no-social-media moment (and why it gave me mental clarity I didn’t know I needed)

P.S. If you’ve been feeling the pull to evolve—this one’s for you. And if you’re trying to make decisions from a place of “I just need this to work,” this convo might just save you from recreating the same problems with a different name.

EPISODE  SHOW NOTES👇

https://heathersager.com/episode241

Transcript

Heather (00:11)

Welcome back to another episode of the Ramble Refinery. I'm your host Heather Seger, and we are here following up on our spring refresh series where we're talking about the evolution of making changes in our business, expanding in our business, rethinking things in our business. We are on episode four of the series, and I just finished my interview with today's guest, Rebecca. And I have to tell you, it's not...

Okay, this is gonna sound like an a-hole statement. It's not very often where I'm like, holy crap, that blew my mind. I haven't thought about things like that before. I felt that way walking out of this conversation. fact, Rebecca and I stuck around for probably another 45 minutes after we done recording and we started brainstorming around just a few things on this, but also.

Rebecca's one of my clients. She's been inside my speaking community for the last few years. And so we actually used what we talked about today's conversation where we just brainstormed so many ideas of how she can incorporate that into a signature talk. So kind of funny, right? Pulling back behind the curtain here around how we started off by talking about a pivot.

that she made in her business and it was a pretty substantial one. So we're gonna get right out of the gate on that. She actually changed the industry that she worked in pretty early on into our business, which is a crazy, scary leap of faith. We'll talk about how she navigated that and what actually led to going all in on the new business, the one she's currently in and has been for the last few years. It wasn't a random spout of courage. There was actually circumstances that made it happen.

So we're gonna get into that, but then we actually talk about the work that she does. Now, Rebecca, I'll let her talk to you a little bit more about the work. We actually talk about that quite a bit today, but simply put, she's a sleep and stress coach helping high achieving women, not just manage their stress, but learn how to master it. And what was really fascinating is she and I had talked about this for years as I've been helping with her, but today something about the conversation just clicked for me in a new way. And you'll hear in the conversation totally.

had me shifting how I see stress and how I experience stress. Now, what does this have to do with the Refresh series? Well, one, if you are expanding into a new industry, if you're thinking about switching niches, niches, whatever the heck the word is, right? But if you're about changing lanes, or even if you're just in a mode where you're thinking about making a change in your business, not only does the conversation of Rebecca's changes, will those help with you, but actually talking about her area of expertise, how that...

impacts the quality of the decisions that you make and why making decisions when you're experiencing stress, even if you don't think you are, ⁓ could lead to a little bit of a disaster where you're repeating the same patterns, the same problems, and maybe you end up recreating a lot of work. So what we want to do in our business is when we're creating new things, when we're saying goodbye to old things that aren't serving us, when we're stepping into our new era, we want to make sure that we're doing it from

a grounded place. And what I see is so many business owners, myself included, I've been there, we make decisions sometimes based off of stress-inducers, whether it's money-driven, whether it's life-driven, whether it's something that's going on that it's forcing our hand. What we want to make sure is that if we're going to be answering this call to do something new or to make a change, we feel

good and solid about the decision. Now you're never going to be certain because certainty doesn't exist, but you want to make sure that you have clarity in your mind and you've been able to think through things and follow your heart. Like you can't do one or the other. So I know you're going to love this conversation as much as I did. And then next week I will be back and we're going to be back to a solo episode where I'm telling you some of the things that I am expanding and shifting inside my business here at HeatherSager.com. So ⁓ yeah, let's jump right to the episode.

Heather (04:09)

All right, well, we're officially here, Rebecca. Welcome to the Ramble refinery. I'm so excited that you're here today.

Rebecca Vigelius (04:15)

Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here too.

Heather (04:17)

This is going to be a fun conversation. You and I have been working together now. I have like two years in my head. I don't know if that timeline is correct, but I feel like we've been working together for quite a while now. Do you remember?

Rebecca Vigelius (04:29)

It's at least two years. It's at

least two years because I remember the day that I decided to pull the trigger to work with you. I was actually sitting at the island at our cabin. And I had been hemming and hawing about it. And then something came up. And I don't know what it was that motivated me to do it. But I was like, I need to work with Heather. And I said to my husband that day, was like, I really need some help with speaking. And I want to do this. And I told him it. He's like, just.

do it. So I signed up that day. I remember doing it. And I think it was around like a November, December type time where then we were starting in January. So if that

Heather (05:05)

Yeah.

Yes. Okay.

So that, that's good. I love that you have like an, you said an island. Yeah, that's okay. That's like the movie Inside Out where they have like all the core memories in the jars. Great. I'm like cemented in that. ⁓ I love that. Okay. What initially like intrigued me about ⁓ asking you to be in this conversation today is like a very specific.

Rebecca Vigelius (05:13)

Or memory.

Heather (05:33)

but we'll get there in a second. Just anchor the audience a little bit about what's your business today? What do you do?

Rebecca Vigelius (05:40)

Yeah, how long you got? No, I'm just kidding. And I think this will be a really great part of the conversation. But essentially, I'm a certified sleep and stress coach, and I'm a neurosomatic intelligence practitioner. I have a company called Rested Edge Wellness, and I work with typically high-performing driven women who I like to say are fed up ⁓ and want to feel human again. And so.

Heather (05:41)

Yeah.

Rebecca Vigelius (06:05)

I work with them one to one. And then I also go in and do work with organizations, so teams that are looking to improve how stress is affecting the team dynamics, communication, all that type of stuff. So really kind of a couple of different things going on there in my business. But typically what it revolves around is helping people manage chronic stress, manage stress, not even really manage it, but like.

master it and learn where it's coming from and ⁓ really understand what they can do to feel more empowered because stress is not going anywhere. ⁓ And so how to kind of deal with things and build more capacity to be able to do the things they want to do while still feeling fabulous doing them, not feeling burnt out.

Heather (06:52)

think that the task at hand for like every woman all the freaking time. Okay, so you used a couple fancy words in there. So can you... this is for Heather is not afraid to ask the stupid questions and sound like a dummy. The word okay, you know how you hear a word, it's like the slug bug rule where it's like, you start playing the game slug bug. Did we do that? Like we all did that in the 80s, right? Where you got to punch your brothers and sisters by looking for the slug bugs on the road.

Rebecca Vigelius (06:54)

Mm-hmm.

Heather (07:20)

but you wouldn't notice a bug around unless you were like playing the game and then you saw a bunch of them. I feel like this is what happens to me as I see a word that I'm like, I'm familiar with that. And then I see it everywhere. So you mentioned like, Samantha, was it semantic? This is where I'm about to find this sounds stupid. So people are listening to me and like, duh, Heather. Okay. So tell me, I've been seeing that a lot. Like we didn't have this conversation before here. So I'm just like ad libbing. But like, what, what does that, what does that mean?

Rebecca Vigelius (07:34)

Yeah.

That was the best. No, that was great.

Yeah. So the word you've probably been seeing around is somatics. Yeah. There's a lot of people, ⁓ practitioners who are doing things like somatic experiencing, ⁓ working with the body. ⁓ Our stress system lives in the body. So you're hearing a lot of talk now about nervous system, working with your nervous system, nervous system regulation, and somatics kind of comes into that a little bit. The word I used.

Heather (07:54)

Sematics, okay.

Rebecca Vigelius (08:19)

is neurosomatics.

Heather (08:21)

Yes, okay, I was like, it was even fancier.

Rebecca Vigelius (08:24)

Very

fancy, very fancy. So I'm a certified neurosomatic intelligence practitioner. And basically what that means, I love this work because I have a very ⁓ analytical mind. I come from journalism, so I'm a skeptic. ⁓ I worked in executive communications for years. All of that comes into play when I decide to do something. And so when I was learning about

stress management and learning about chronic stress and learning about myself, I came down and went down this path on neurosomatics. It's a long story, kind of how I got there. But neurosomatics is essentially applied neurology, somatics, which I just explained is like working with the body. Applied neurology is working with different parts of the brain. And then emotional and stress processing. And so we combine those three things.

to help us really kind of get in touch with what is going on in our nervous system and work with our nervous system to be able to create capacity to do the stuff that we want to do. And so why I love this practice is that it is measurable and super tangible and practical. And so that's kind of the difference. You hear about people having these like big somatic experiences.

I go in and I work with people. It's not therapy and it's not hands on. We work primarily virtually except when I'm working like within an organization, I'll go do like an in-person workshop, that type of thing. But I'm teaching people really how to get back in touch with the signals that are coming from their body and then how to work with the different parts of their brain to like process that.

Process those signals and change how they react and respond to stressful situations and ⁓ create more capacity to welcome in the good stuff too. Because we're never really taught this stuff. We're not handed a manual when we were born that says, here you go. Here's how your interoperating system works. Follow this step by step. Get to know yourself. Understand the signals. No, we get none of that. And then,

through our lives, especially women, we are taught to actually ignore those signals and start to kind of not notice our feelings and our emotions and all those different things that are going on. And so we could go down and wrap a whole talking about this for the whole hour. And I know that's not why we're here. But yeah, it's just a very practical, tangible way of working with your nervous system to.

to create that regulation and capacity ongoing. you hear a lot of people also talk about creating safety, right? That's a big word right now. Do you feel safe? Does your nervous system feel safe? And this is a really practical way to create safety and lower threat in the nervous system so that we can go ahead and do the things we want to do without our brain shutting us down.

Heather (11:44)

Yeah, I don't think this is like a detour at all. I think I actually have some questions around how this actually applies to this whole series. So we're gonna put a pin in that and come back around for it. But this is so needed, right? Especially high achieving women, entrepreneurs, like just in general, exactly what you said. We take for granted the fact that we like wake up.

Rebecca Vigelius (11:55)

Yes.

Heather (12:08)

and are just able to do things every day. And sometimes we just push ourselves and continue to push, but we don't actually pay attention to the signals. And that's what I love about what you do is you help people understand what signals are happening and how they can better navigate it using their brain and their body. And it's just, it's just really fascinating what you do. So let's, let's get into the meat of what I really wanted to dig in today. Cause when you reached out initially to work together on your talk, you were in like,

pivot. actually very distinctly remember this. think we were Instagram DM voice messaging and you were talking about making this transition in your professional career. So can we go back to that two, two and a half years ago, three years ago maybe now that I'm actually thinking about it. Talk a little bit about what were you doing at that time and how you shifted into the work you're doing now.

Rebecca Vigelius (12:50)

Yeah.

I was running basically a copywriting and messaging strategy micro agency. So I had come out of corporate. It actually been laid off VP corporate communications and marketing had been laid off and long story short had no desire to seek employment again. And also just kind of where I was living also at the time I had moved outside of downtown Vancouver.

And there weren't a lot of VP opportunities in the area that I was in. And I didn't want to be commuting. And so I started my own business doing copywriting and messaging strategy. things were going really well. Like, it didn't take that long to get off the ground. was getting the clients. I had a great network. I had people referring me. And everything was going well. And I was also burning out.

because I was sitting behind my computer writing all day long, working on other people's messaging and strategy all day long, and also being the one to go and find the clients. And every entrepreneur knows this story, right? And so not only that, but I did have some stuff going on in my personal life where that was causing me a fairly high stress load at the time. And so I didn't know. I didn't know what was going on.

knew that I didn't feel like myself. And so I went down a rabbit hole. I was also working with some wellness organizations in my copywriting business. But I, through that, through those connections, went down a rabbit hole and discovered that I was struggling with chronic stress, that my sleep challenges were related to my chronic stress, that all of the things that were going on with me, my weight gain, my just feeling really just not like myself.

feeling pretty disconnected from some of my most important relationships, all of those things. And so I one day discovered this notion, not even a notion, it is what it is, of chronic stress. And went, my gosh, OK, now I have something to work with here. And so I went and, like I do, got certified as a Sleep Stress Management Recovery Coach. And just was like, now I actually understand this.

Holy cow, if I didn't know this, how many other women don't know this? How many other women don't understand how their interoperating system works and that they can be so much more empowered to feel different than they do now? And the stuff on the outside is not going to change necessarily, so we got to work with the stuff on the inside. And so in that moment, I was like, I want to do this.

This excites me. I want to do this. I want to help other people. It's a very quintessential coach story. ⁓ And so I think when you and I first were connected, I was in that place where I wasn't necessarily burning my other business down immediately, though I do have a funny story about that. I wanted to kind of transition into this other work whilst maintaining my other business and kind of slowly moving into things.

⁓ the funny story about that is I ended up rewriting my website as a copywriter does transition into my new website. thinking I'll just keep my copy website up. Everything will be cool and I will have this other website. Well, in the process of moving things, I lost all content on my copywriting website. All of it, all of my, every page that I had written, everything, it was gone.

I was like, okay, well, I guess we're doing this other thing full time then, no one could find me.

Heather (16:48)

Thank

I'm having

black backs. remember you sharing this early on in our journey. And it's like, that's like two ways, right? It's like, we could all imagine having, I think we've all had a moment where something that we were working on was deleted, overridden, something happened, right? It's like, it's almost like a rite of passage, but to have your entire website copy go away, like.

one, for you to have the attitude after you probably had a good cry, like to be like, okay, well, we're going all in on this other area, but if you talk about a sign to like step into the new direction, like.

Rebecca Vigelius (17:17)

yeah.

Oh

my gosh. And not only that, I might have shared with you also, I had a massive issue with my email around that same time. Totally not connected. Two different things, two different servers. But I ended up losing a ton. I'm a bit of an email hoarder. And so I ended up losing a ton of past client emails that I had been keeping, things that I could go back to to reference for future client, as we do.

disappeared and I was like, well if that's not a sign from the universe, I don't know what is so yeah, it all went away. It's like, okay, you're in this full time now.

Heather (18:02)

So on like a just a side tangent on that note, it is interesting and I found this to be true. I mean, I've done lots of pivots. I've talked about it very openly over the last six years of my business. But I find that anytime I feel like something like, not a mistake, but like something like that happens, right? Whether it's like, I don't know, you have to redo a file or like you keep redoing something or something sticky. It's...

easy to say in retrospective, ⁓ that was a sign for me to probably stop doing that thing. But how resistant we are that so often that word is like, no, I'm just gonna push through, I just need to make this thing right. So do you think had you not had those things be deleted and go away, do you think you would have jumped in as full assy as you did?

Rebecca Vigelius (18:50)

No. No. I don't think I would have. think I would have. I mean, that was a pretty hard firm no that just came out of my mouth, so I'm going to trust it. ⁓ Yeah. I think I would have tried to walk the line for a little bit longer, at least. ⁓ Yeah, for a little bit longer. It is so interesting, though, that now, you know,

I come from a communications background, ⁓ did a lot of work, like spent several years both agency side and in-house as a executive communications professional. now that, and so that's kind of separate apart from the copywriting and messaging strategy. There's obviously some similarities and through lines with that type of work, but ⁓ I've always had like,

Communication is one of my top values. I've always had this very close connection to that industry that I worked in. And I transitioned out of it into my copywriting and messaging strategy business for a variety of reasons. Anyway, my point in telling you this is it's really interesting that today, because of the type of clients who I work with being typically managing partners, C-suite level, director level, women one to one,

as well as going into organizations that are struggling, interestingly, with communication internally, that type of thing. My communications background is really coming into play today in the work that I do. So I'm not straddling the line, per se, but it definitely plays a role. realized that actually recently in a couple of different one-to-one

coaching calls I did with some clients and they were women in very high profile ⁓ positions and who were struggling a bit with communication side of things. And we actually got into more of a still coach role, but there was some like communications consulting happening there as well. It was really interesting. And I was like, okay, this is, this is kind of cool. Like we put ourselves, we kind of pigeonhole ourselves into these roles and we don't

necessarily have to. So yeah.

Heather (21:17)

love that you brought that up. It reminds me of the conversation I was having with Ellen, which we re-aired two weeks ago. You and I were talking about that before we recorded. One of the things that she and I talked about was this idea that there seems to be this delusional opinion in this online space with entrepreneurs that people are always thinking like, I have to change directions. I have to go in a new route. I'm changing industries. I'm doing something new. It's like the word pivot, which I've used pivot before. I've even used this conversation, but it's really...

It's hilarious when we think about it is we in our brains think that, we're doing this new thing, but it's just a new version of the same thing in a beautiful way, not in a bad way. So with what you're talking about is right, taking executive communication experience into writing. That was like a very like, well that makes sense, right? Language into a different form of language. That's an easy jump. But it sounds like originally in your head,

it's felt like a left turn, right? I'm going from this very tangible thing, very service-based, it's very easy to articulate the value of copywriting to now like, let me help you manage stress in your brain and figuring out how do I make that tangible, right? And that's a challenge for a lot of people who do coaching is like, how do we do that? And then what you just described is this really beautiful thing is that you didn't leave behind all the stuff that you've already done. You actually now just have it in a new, like beautiful wrapper.

like it's still part of you and it still comes out. So I just think that's a really beautiful thing. It reminds me of ⁓ I'm reading a lot of books right now, a lot of board books with my little toddler at home. And his favorite one right now is the very hungry caterpillar who eats like all the food under the sun and then it emerges this big beautiful caterpillar at the end. And so that's what I keep thinking of every time I hear these stories around people who've gone through change and

Rebecca Vigelius (22:59)

Yes.

Heather (23:12)

What I always hear is regardless of the struggle, the cocoon version, right? Of the like, I'm stuffed and full, I think I'm dying. There's always the element of emerging like a butterfly. And I love that you just brought up that piece that you still use all of that communication training, because that's what makes you really unique.

Rebecca Vigelius (23:30)

Yeah, absolutely. And you know what? I will share this too, because this really ⁓ impacted me when I read it not that long ago. So I was on LinkedIn, and someone had shared a post. was like someone I wasn't even connected with. You know how sometimes someone else in your network likes a post, and then it shows up on your feed or whatever. And this woman who I wasn't connected with at the time had posted about this idea of having a portfolio career.

And I was like, I want to read it. Like, what is she talking about? Portfolio career. And so started reading. I was like, my gosh. Like, yes, please. And this post was, I might get a few of the details not exact, but it was essentially like she was the executive director of an organization. It was kind of sharing that she was also going to be working with, I think it was like a nonprofit, or she was doing something that was related but not related. And so.

It's just this idea that we don't have to be one thing also. I can be Rebecca Vigalias, neurosomatic intelligence practitioner and communications advisor if I want to. I can still, who's to say that I can't do these things that light me up in whatever form they present themselves to me? And I just.

Yeah, or whatever else it is that may come up along the way. And so that really hit me in that moment just a few weeks ago. And I was like, heck yeah. This can be a thing. For those of us, I'm 46, Gen X, just right on the cusp. But we brought up this idea that you get into a career, and yes, things can flow and change a bit.

But they always have to have this really strong through line or make sense. And you have to do one thing at a time. And I was like, heck, no, I don't. I don't have to do one thing at a time. I can do whatever the heck I want. so anyway, just, yeah, I thought that was a really cool concept.

Heather (25:42)

I that approach. It reminds me of how, I don't know, I think we've probably talked about this before. Whenever I'm working with a newer client and we're trying to like nail down their what I'm about statement, right? Just that very simple, like, how do you explain to people what you do? One of the biggest things that people struggle with is how do I boil it down into something so simple because it seems to undervalue the work that we do. And said differently, I think...

We have a hard time trying to put a label on things or like distill things down in a really simple way because of what we're talking about here. We know we're more than the work that we currently do, right? There's this like element. I always talk about how I had a huge issue taking the title of a quote unquote speaking coach because that sounded really fucking lame. Like I'm not a like a retired actor teaching people performance on stage. I'm not a former news anchor teaching people performance like.

I did not have a big-ass career as a professional speaker. Like I do professional speaking, but my career was in a different path. Like I keep going back to, have these different paths. And so it felt really weird to label it in that way. And I think that is one of the big struggles a lot of people have is like, we got to simplify it, right? Give people language to describe us so that they get it. But there is this route that deep down, even if we're conscious or not, we know that we're more than.

like we're more than the work that we do right now. And it's really hard to, it's hard to boil that down. So I'm curious for you, did you, did you struggle at all, like fully adopting this new role in this new niche, niche niche, whatever it's called, right? This new thing that you're doing. Did you like struggle of going like, I'm excited about it, but like, are people gonna get it? Is that enough? Will they buy it? Like walk me through your, walk me through your internal drama.

Rebecca Vigelius (27:30)

Yeah.

yeah. there's ⁓ again, how long you got? ⁓ No, there's internal drama. And you know what? There still is because my business is still evolving. ⁓ I just now thankfully have the tools to recognize the drama as exactly that. It's drama. It's my thoughts. Thoughts aren't facts. know, all of the things that I share with my clients. And then I also have the tools to

Heather (27:36)

you

Rebecca Vigelius (27:58)

regulate around that and kind of bring myself back into my body and understand that the direction is in me. I just have to listen to it. ⁓ But I'm human. And so this stuff does still come up. And previously, before I did have that awareness, it came up a ton. And you get into a pattern, too, of that whole imposter syndrome thing. Like, what the heck?

Why would someone pay me to coach them on stress, helping them with their stress management or whatever it is? Why would someone do that when I had only been doing it for this amount of time or whatever? And I really, yeah, I had to work on that on a daily basis. I had to really remind myself and.

have people around me. This is a big piece. And you're one of my support team, Rebecca. Heather's on that team. And other people, too, reminding me exactly what you just talked about, too. I'm not coming in this totally green. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm a business owner. I have been working in all of these different fields. I'm a stepmom. I'm you know,

I'm a person, I'm a human who has had stress. I'm like all of these different things. So it's not like I'm coming into coaching and consulting with people in this particular area as like a brand new beginner. ⁓ And so I had to just have those conversations with myself kind of constantly and again have people around me who helped.

to remind me of that too. Because yeah, it comes fast and furious on some days. Yeah.

Heather (29:55)

I'm glad

that you were honest around that it still comes up, right? But I think there is an element of one, you have the tools, two, there's a time element, right? The more that you do it, the more we get used to it, and the more clients we book, and the more that we're out there, we just start normalizing a bit. I am kind of curious, can we talk like logistics for a second? Thinking about anyone listening.

Rebecca Vigelius (30:05)

yeah.

Heather (30:19)

who's considering making like a change, whether they're changing their industry or changing their offer suite or something. There's that element we were talking about, right? Is that you had all these plates spinning and your goal was to like start this new plate over here and slowly ease into it. But for you, was like rug pulled out. Okay, we're going all in. So there's obviously like a logistics piece of right, we're making money in one and I need to like...

get the other one happening. Can we talk a little bit about just that? You don't have to share like dollars and cents around that. But like, just that tension for you, did you feel like this imbalance between you were so passionate about this area, but then there's this tug around, but I have to make sure it's monetized, like which is very much like a brand new entrepreneur, but you weren't a new entrepreneur, but you were in a mode of new entrepreneur. Can we talk about that for a minute? Because I don't think enough people talk about the pressure of

Rebecca Vigelius (30:48)

Really.

yeah.

Heather (31:11)

like needing to be profitable and what that causes.

Rebecca Vigelius (31:16)

I always say that I run a business to make impact and income. Both are extremely important. I have no issue saying that I want to make money in my business. It's extremely important because it allows me to live the life that I want to live. My business supports my fabulous life. I'm not living to work in my business. So just like,

get that on the table real quick, because income is really important. ⁓ And so, yeah, there was definitely kind of had to go through a process of figuring out, OK, what does this look like? I need to build credibility and authority in this new space that I don't necessarily have the level of credibility and authority in that I had when I started my first business.

Copywriting and messaging strategy. Yeah, I came out as a vice president of communications and marketing and like, OK, people are going to look at that and go, yeah, she knows what the hell she's talking about. Of course, let's hire her. And she's a conversion copywriter. She's trained in that. She's got the experience. It's all there. She wrote for TV news for you. It was there. And so, yeah, I had to go through a process of kind of

accepting my credibility and authority and continuing to build it. Thankfully, like full transparency, I had some cushion when I first started building my new business, my current business. ⁓ I had some cushion because I had been, ⁓ so I had been laid off from my VP of corporate communications position before I started my own business, which was like the best thing that could have ever happened to me. had golden handcuffs and should have left the business.

a year or two before I did. I actually, sidebar, Heather Sager sidebar, went into the day I got laid off, or the day that I found out had a meeting with my CEO the following Monday. It was a Saturday. And I was going out for dinner with friends. And I walked into the restaurant. I had this big smile on my face. And they were like, what's going on? And I was like, guys.

Pretty sure I'm getting laid off on Monday. Which, you know what, I know that can be a very stressful situation for people, so I don't want to make light of it. But I had set myself up to be OK. And ⁓ yeah, and so that did play a role. I definitely, you know, I was able to move into my other business because I still had some cushion there to be able to do that.

Heather (33:35)

Yeah.

Rebecca Vigelius (33:58)

And I had to really go through a process of figuring out, what does my offer stack look like? How much should I be charging for one-to-one coaching? And you go through a process, too, when you think you're super new. You're like, I have to charge only this amount because I'm just like, got to have those reminders again. Like, nope, you actually are very, ⁓ gosh.

Heather (34:21)

that's so annoying. Like, isn't it so annoying

to have to be like, I've already been here, I shouldn't ask this and spoiler, like, it's always the same damn lessons over and over again. So like, until we die, like

Rebecca Vigelius (34:26)

Yes!

over and over again.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's, yeah,

that's how it worked for me. Like it has for many other people, but yeah, I had to like, yeah, really, you know, felt like a push really hard in the beginning to, get things kind of up and running. Yeah.

Heather (34:49)

Yeah, I

love that you brought up that whole like, universe slapped you on the ass again around like the layoff on the job. Like that seems to be the pattern is life knows that you probably wouldn't take the leap or you'd Peter around on it. So it just kind of slaps you into the next thing. So that's kind of funny that that's, that's your style for evolving, right? ⁓

Rebecca Vigelius (35:09)

Yeah.

That's actually, I'm so glad that you pointed that out because I actually didn't really realize that. So now I'm going to make note of that and yeah.

Heather (35:16)

Yeah. It's like that side

note, let's add that into your story, right? And I just think about this for you is, I actually think this is really perfect for anyone listening. How often do we all sit on a decision where we know the thing that we want to be doing, but then we try to like logic our way out of

Rebecca Vigelius (35:21)

Yeah.

Heather (35:36)

why it's not the right time or why that shouldn't work or why we need to have the safety net or we talk ourselves out of the things that we really wanna do. And for you, I would imagine your analytical brain that you've said, you probably do that extensively. And so that's where it's like when you're meant to do it, you get a swift kick in the ass and say, okay, cool, I'm not waiting on you, go do it.

Rebecca Vigelius (35:54)

Thank

Totally, yes. Thank you, Universe, for having my back because I sometimes have to be reminded of that. But no, you're absolutely right.

Heather (36:07)

It's good. love, I love that honesty. So hopefully motivation, no one please go quit their jobs or like, like do the big giant leap. I think the takeaway with this is there's this element of like, take the leap, right? Or embrace the shift that life serves up, but pair that with smart choices. I love the fact that you brought up, I had a cushion, so differently, right? Is you had like,

savings, right? Or you had like a whatever financial plan. I think about this is like different context, right? But I've talked about before me taking maternity leave now a year and a half ago, I thought it was going to be like for a defined amount of time and then life-lifed and it ended up becoming like about a year. I pretty much didn't really work much in the business. And because I had planned for it, both in reducing expenses and also making sure that I had savings, I was able to do those types of things.

I think a lot of times we can get really fluffy about these conversations of like, just be bold, just be courageous, follow your heart and it'll all work out. That's how you go broke or like pile up a lot of money on a credit card that you don't need to be spending money on. I think we also need to not just trust that things will work out. I think we also have a fancy word, fiduciary responsibility to make the math work. So I think that's a big thing to be said is if you want to make a pivot or if you want to make a change or you want to do something like,

cut the expenses you don't need and start saving your ass and prepare for it so that you're not like experience that financial stress and pressure because that is like the worst of trying to birth this new thing while also being totally strapped for cash and feeling the pressure that it has to work out. ⁓ So there's my mid real Ted talk.

Rebecca Vigelius (37:50)

I mean, stress management 101, right? We can plan. We can't control. There's hardly anything that we can actually control in this world. And so, yeah, let's look at the things that we can control in a pivot and focus our energy on those, as well as trusting ourselves and outside forces. really, I had to a lot of times sit with myself and

Heather (37:53)

Yeah.

Rebecca Vigelius (38:19)

You know, still to this day, it's a regular practice of mine where I will sit in quiet or listening to a particular playlist or, you know, recording that my coach has shared with me. And really just if there's a decision that I need to make or something I'm uncertain about is like really leaning into what my signals are that are coming from my body and listening to those. I know it sounds kind of woo, but it

It's when you give yourself the time to do that, then the images start showing up in your head. And the answers are like if they present themselves to you. So that's a big piece of it.

Heather (38:57)

I love that that's actually the circle back that I wanted to bring back talking about your area of expertise, right? Is the I'm imagining people who are listening to this series, right? They're experiencing their own version of I'm thinking about making a change, whether it's a change their offer or change their offer suite, they're like me rebranding their podcast 73 million times if they're like redoing their programs or right? We're always like change is inevitable. That's like the famous saying, but there is this element that I see

there's a difference between making choices from a rooted place of calm, right? You can never be certain, but you can be calm and then you can lean into something and trust that you're going to make it work regardless of what that comes to be. But then I see a lot of times people making these decisions from a place of stress, right? Maybe that stress is, there's other things going on in their lives, maybe there's a stress of finance, maybe they're like all these different stressors.

Can you share just a little bit, I want you riff a little bit more on that around what would you say to someone who's listening, who's like thinking about making a change, but get them to pause to think about how stress is maybe showing up in that decision.

Rebecca Vigelius (40:09)

Yeah, excuse me. This is a really great question because it basically describes what I do with people on a fairly regular basis. So I always use the analogy of like our brains are our threat bucket. think of your brain as a threat bucket. And all day long, there's water flowing into that bucket. And that's all of our stressors from throughout the day.

they range on a scale, Small like traffic jam to, you know, found out someone is sick. And in that threat bucket as well is all of our past experiences, all of our developmental experiences. So there's always a little bit of water that we've all kind of got in the bottom of that bucket. And then depending where we're at, the water level is rising kind of throughout the day. And so if we try to make a decision,

when that water level is nearing the top of the bucket, it's not going to go well. Because we are making a decision out of fear and scarcity, basically low capacity. We have no capacity in our bucket, our threat bucket, to make a decision, clear, conscious, focused decision. So what I teach people is, how do we lower the water level in that threat bucket?

kind of ongoing, like that's the work, is keeping that threat bucket water level at ⁓ a good spot where we're not going to be in a full blown stress response, or we're not going to be doing things that are essentially stress response, like procrastination and perfectionism and all that kind of stuff. And so what can we do to lower that water level on a fairly regular basis so that we have capacity to make decisions from a place of

clarity, and accuracy. Our brains are always just there to protect us, trying to keep us alive all day long. And so the more threat that your brain interprets, the less chance you're going to have of making a clear, calm, focused decision that serves you well. So that is kind of where we're always at. And so we do that in a few different ways. It's like,

Well, there's tons of different ways that we can do it. You can do it. You don't have to work with me. You can work with anybody. You can work with yourself. What is it that feels good to lower the water level in that threat bucket? Is it going for a walk outside? Is it working with someone like me who knows the different parts of your brain? And we can use applied neurology to start changing things in the survival area of your brain and get your executive function back online quickly, those types of things. Is it?

It's snuggling with your dog. Is it listening to the music that you want to listen to? But basically, like you said, really important word, that P word, pause. Pause, regulate, lower the water level in that threat bucket a little bit. And no matter what's going on, you will be able to have more perspective, more accuracy, more clarity in your brain, and be able to make a decision from that place instead of.

out of fear and scarcity and all those other places that we don't want to be making decisions from.

Heather (43:30)

Gosh, that is so freaking good. I side note, I just like recommend anybody like hit the 30 second back button like four times and just listen to that multiple times. For one, like even if we're not in a place of making changes in our business as I mean, entrepreneurs, we are decision makers, right? If your business is stalled, it's because you're not making decisions, right? I have many episodes where I talk about that and get up on my soapbox to talk about like, grow some balls, make some decisions, like just keep moving. But the

if we're making decisions, I love that metaphor, you know I love being a metaphor, so good job, but that bucket being full, there's no way, like even if we're making fast decisions is we're making kind of ferocious decisions. And then we're probably then double backing and adjusting those decisions or like constantly circling the same thing over and over again. You know what came to mind as you were talking about that, you're clicking in for me something that's actually happened to me over the last month.

So I've talked about this a little bit on the kickoff episode that I'm in a season of change right now, like change of physically getting my physical person back from creating humans, right? And sustaining life of humans. I'm like getting back in touch with me and getting my body back in shape and trying to put my midsection back together. But part of it's also just my mental capacity is one of the things that I realized, I don't know, probably about a month and a half ago, I've been going through and reading a lot of books. ⁓

like, a sequence of books. read, a couple weeks ago, I read The One Thing, right? Really great book. Gary Keller and whoever, Poppa's on, J. Poppa's on. I don't think it's actually Poppa's on. That's the chair, you the big round chair is Poppa's on chair. Whatever, it's a great book. We've all read it. I've read it multiple times, but for some reason, my bookshelf was calling, like, read that book now. So I read that one, and then back to back, I reread Cal Newport's book, Digital Minimalism.

Rebecca Vigelius (45:00)

Yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Heather (45:22)

which is so great, right? And I had forgotten I actually read that book before, which is hilarious. And I started reading it, I'm like, I feel like I read it. So I looked it up on my Goodreads app and I'm like, I read it back in 2021. Anyways, what came up for me is about three or probably about four weeks ago, I made the decision to uninstall all social media apps from my cell phone. And I don't know why I made that decision. I couldn't really articulate it for you. I just felt...

hold to do it. I'm like, if I'm going to check, I'm just going to check on my computer. And I've been doing it. first, I just thought I was going to do it for the weekend. And now it's been a month. But as I was reading digital minimalism, it was interesting. There was a chapter specifically on solitude. And he was talking about one of the biggest challenges for us in this modern digital era is when he talks about solitude, it's not about being alone. It's more around like being in your own thoughts.

Rebecca Vigelius (46:03)

Mm-hmm.

Heather (46:17)

and how we're in a world that's constantly other people hijacking our thoughts. And I know you're already instantly loving this. just, well, here we go. So what I realized was I had been in probably a stress mode, which I didn't feel like stressed as I would have defined stress. Like when I define stress, it's like ⁓ my dear sisters who I love, who have very busy schedules.

Rebecca Vigelius (46:25)

You

Heather (46:41)

right? They're shuffling kids from, ⁓ like all these different practices and have all these responsibilities and they're so busy and they're never home and they're always driving. I see that. I'm like, how stressful, but for me, I'm like, I have no schedule. I work at home. I really don't have much to do. I can't be stressed. And so was interesting as I was reading this chapter about a week ago and he was talking about this need to be just alone with your thoughts and not have all these inputs. What I realized is I had been

probably for the last two years, if we really pull it back, been doing most of my business through my cell phone because I had the excuse that I was racing between things or that I was taking care of the baby or was feeding the baby or I was at whatever in the middle of the night with the baby or I just, wasn't sitting at my desk. I was no longer in the phase of life where I was a desk worker. I was a mobile worker on the go. And I kind of had a group like,

adopted that identity and I actually had some specific things designed to work with that. And as I read through this chapter, I was like, holy shit. like literally all the time, I'm either checking something on my phone, responding to a boxer message, checking my Instagram for whatever reason, checking my email, Googling something that my kids want on Amazon. Like it's a constant source of hijacking my brain. And

just by going through and deleting those things off my phone and then going through this book. For me, I haven't like broken up with my phone, I'm still using it, but it's just been fascinating how much more capacity has been in my bucket, per your metaphor, over the last three weeks and how much more grounded I feel, which sounds so stupid as I say it because duh.

And especially for those of us who are elder millennials and Gen Xers, like this is the world we grew up in. So it's just comical that we're like discovering it again, which is just hilarious. ⁓ but what you're saying here, it makes perfect sense that I've had so much more clarity around the next chapter for me and my business and where I'm going. And it's 100 % because of what you're talking about, just in different language. So, okay. Now you jam up on, know you were taking notes as I was in there.

like big light bulb bucket, all of that.

Rebecca Vigelius (49:00)

Yeah. No,

I love it. I love it. And you brought up so many things that, yeah, are so important for people to hear. And one of them, and this is kind of, again, a little sidebar, is like, I talk about the work that I do as it relates to stress. And so I love that you brought up how you view stress versus.

Well, just how you view stress. So you talked about your sisters and how you look at them and you're like, OK, when they have so much busy stuff going on, wow, that must be so stressful. I'm not that stressed. And this is something you and I can talk about offline when we talk about messaging. Well, yeah, because it's like not everybody relates to stress the same way. But what's happening is it is

Heather (49:39)

making notes

Rebecca Vigelius (49:50)

And it's because it's showing up in different ways. In NSI, neurosomatic intelligence, we say sensory inputs are the gateway to presence is one of the things. And you can attack any word that you want, really, on the end of that sentence. Your sensory inputs are what are filling up that bucket on an ongoing basis, that threat bucket, without you even knowing it.

And so you, Heather, may not be experiencing stress similar to in the way that your sisters are. Or their kind of stress outputs may be different than yours. Or their stress inputs, I should say, are different than yours. They've got the busyness. You've got the sensory, the visual, the stimulation that's coming into your threat bucket. And sometimes we don't even realize.

Most of the time, we don't even realize that it's happening until we make a change. But that could have shown up for you, not to put words in your mouth, but you think about, we always talk about in NSI input interpretation output. So what are the inputs coming in? How is our brain interpreting that? It's only asking one question, safe or unsafe? Like, is this a threat to my safety or not? Am I cool? And then based on that, it's going to produce an output. And that may be something like,

procrastination, it may be pain, it may be a bit of underlying anxiety. You're not really sure where that came from. And it's like when the bucket is getting closer to the top than we want it to, that interpretation piece becomes like the brain's like, no, this is not safe. Even if we look at it from a practical kind of cognitive standpoint and go, well, no, that's fine. It's just an overflowing inbox. Like, whatever.

But your brain interprets because of the situation that where the threat bucket water level is. And so yeah, just as you're talking about this, I'm like, my gosh, yes, this makes so much sense. ⁓ Because that's how it works. That's how our nervous system works, is it's taking in inputs all day long. Brain's going, yeah, threat or no threat, and then we're getting that output. And so your output maybe was like,

not necessarily being stalled in your business, but maybe just not really sure what direction or, you know, because you just said you got a lot of clarity over what to do. And so it's because you changed the inputs. And so that's what I do in my work is we most modalities, I will say, or a lot of coaching and stuff, we look at the output first and try and figure out how to fix the output. Whereas if we start with the input,

we can change that interpretation and then change the output. And it's far more sustainable. It'll actually stick. And so I love that you basically you did that cycle. You changed the input. You lowered the water level in your threat bucket. Your brain went, OK, I actually feel little better. I can have clarity and accuracy because that's what your brain's looking for. And then you got what you were looking for on the other end of that is the output. So yeah.

So much goodness there, and that's like that groundedness, like the presence, all of that. That's what comes from working with our sensory inputs, which we do in a whole whack of different ways.

Heather (53:18)

Yeah. Okay. Look at me stumbling into good shit.

Rebecca Vigelius (53:20)

No.

Heather (53:24)

my gosh,

that was like, it's so, it's actually perfectly goes into our conversation today as we were talking about how, you know, that famous quote, I reference this quote all the time that Steve, I think it's Steve Jobs. You can never connect the dots looking forward, but you can always connect them looking back. This is one of the really interesting things that I have declared as one of my unique talents is I see patterns in things.

Rebecca Vigelius (53:40)

Right.

Heather (53:47)

It's like why I'm good at helping people with their talks, right? I'm able to see when somebody's rambling and all their stuff, I'm like, you're saying this, which connects to this, which connects to this, or like we did with you, even this morning on a coaching call, I was like, your story just said this, here's how we infuse it in two different places of your talk to make it like have this like through line. That's icy patterns. So what we were actually talking today is noticing those patterns. So for you looking back, the patterns in your work history and experience, how you carry those forward.

Rebecca Vigelius (53:57)

Yeah.

Heather (54:13)

to help you now take what you do in this work around helping people not just manage stress, right, but to master it, but you bring in things that are very important to them, which is communication, which is infused in everything. So it's an interesting balance. And even what we were talking about, right, is we joked as we started the conversation that I literally had no plan around how this was going to go today. I trusted that I was going to be able to ask questions and it would go where it needed to go. And how like fascinating that this beautifully circled back of

your expertise while we were going to talk about it today in terms of that's what you did for the pivot. It actually was the piece to help make this whole conversation around people embracing change, embracing evolution, embracing expansion in their business. This is like a fundamental requirement. So I just, I freaking love the direction we took today's conversation. Like it's almost like we planned it, but we did it.

Rebecca Vigelius (55:02)

We're good.

You

Heather (55:11)

Okay, so now let's wrap up ⁓ your kind of evolution with your business. So it's now been a few years since you've been doing this work. If you had to go back and tell the version of you that was in the midst of this change right now, if you had to go back and tell her something around what was coming, what advice would you go back and or wisdom would you share with her?

Rebecca Vigelius (55:31)

⁓ it always comes down to just trust yourself. Trust yourself, I would say, is the biggest piece. And continue to trust yourself and to be OK also with evolving. My business has evolved even since I started it. I've gone through a couple of different iterations. My one-to-one coaching program is different than it was when I first started.

I like to work with people typically for six months because this stuff does, these changes do not happen overnight. And I work with people who are typically in a transition phase often is when people come to me too, right? And so when I first started, I was like, yeah, let's work together for a few weeks. And I'm like, heck no. We need more time than that. So there's all kinds of things. would just, I guess my advice would be to myself, be open to the evolution.

and listen to your people, the clients, and they will tell you what they need and how it can evolve and in the process to trust yourself.

Heather (56:42)

Yeah, I love I love that kind of goes with this whole idea that we've been talking about is especially for someone sitting on a decision right now or like in the midst of a pivot. I always joke around. I've used this term before, which is always a little weird. I talk about how we hold things in our precious purse, which sounds kind of dirty when I say it, but I don't mean it like that. But what I mean by that is like

Rebecca Vigelius (57:02)

Mmm.

Heather (57:09)

we tend to like hold things of like these really important decisions as being permanent. And with what you're saying is the being open to evolution. I think like I always think about this is just the next chapter. It's not the last chapter. It's not the end chapter. It's just the next chapter. And the cool part is, is you can change it if it's not working or you can maybe it's a stepping stone to the next big thing. Like sometimes you just need to make the next step so you can find the whatever step, but

I know, I don't think there's ever going to be like the quote unquote right version or perfect version. I just think it's just the next version. So I like that you said that.

Rebecca Vigelius (57:46)

Well, and

it's the perfect version right now.

Heather (57:49)

Yeah.

Rebecca Vigelius (57:52)

Right? Like it's

kind of the perfect version for right now. And then, yeah, and then it can evolve as it needs to or as you want it to. Really.

Heather (58:00)

Yeah, I think

that's a good distinguishing piece. Are you, just to catch you on your toes here, is there any like upcoming pivots or any recent pivots or changes that you're like noodling on? You don't have to share details if you don't want to share them publicly, but like speaking of this whole idea of like keep expanding and growing, is that something that you're still like going through? You're going through your next round too?

Rebecca Vigelius (58:22)

Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ So right now, so what I've been doing for the last few years in my business has been, I have worked with some business owners, but it's been primarily women who are in full-time roles, like I said before, C-suite, managing partner, that type of thing, and then going into organizations and working with ⁓ leaders and their teams. And so I am in process right now of

working on my messaging around entrepreneurs. Because I really want to support entrepreneurs with this work. think there is ⁓ so much goodness to be had once we, as business owners, build that bit of capacity. And I think I've been there in my own business as well. My first business, man, I did so much different business strategy and trying to figure out what was the perfect strategy for this and that and whatever.

And I realize now that every strategy works if you have the capacity to implement, to execute. And I want to help entrepreneurs create that capacity and stop spinning in circles trying to find the perfect strategy for their businesses, because there is no perfect strategy. The strategy is you. You are the strategy. And so I have started.

⁓ talking about ⁓ my new theme of the unbothered entrepreneur. Because I just, I love this idea and I've kind of evolved this way in my own life too over the last number of years that I've been doing this work is like, actually, you know what? There's so much in my life that used to bug me and really create a lot of stress for myself and it hit me one day, don't.

actually even know where I was when this happened. But I was like, I am so unbothered by things at this point in my business and in my life. Like, the little stuff does not bug me. I have capacity to get stuff done. I have capacity to pivot and, like, create new things. I am unbothered. I am in a dropsy period also of my life. And over the weekend, I dropped multiple things and had multiple spills. And you know what I tell you?

If that had happened a few years ago, I would have been so ticked at myself. And I was laughing on the floor in the kitchen, cleaning up mayonnaise off the fridge. it sounds so silly. But so anyway, as to the evolution of my business, the unbothered entrepreneur is kind what I'm focused on right now. ⁓

And I really want to create a space for entrepreneurs to be able to build that capacity. And so I'm looking at what could that look like by way of potentially a course that someone could pop into and start to learn about this in a very accessible way and have some really practical, tangible tools to be able to tap into this. I'll just use the word magic because I think it's awesome. ⁓ This work and magic on their own. So I'm looking at that. What might that look like?

And I'm continuing to work with people one-to-one and also with teams too.

Heather (1:01:41)

love that I would totally use the word magic. Because it's one of those things that like it's so it's gonna sound weird. It's so intangible, but like, so friggin powerful, right? It's just having that capacity in your bucket it not to become like your marketer for this because I'm very excited about it. But like the but it just changed the game. I mean, just thinking about that silly example of spilling like, we've all had that scenario where

we drop something in the kitchen or our kids knock something over in the kitchen. And we've all had times where we've been like, no big deal. Let's clean up. Let's sing the cleanup song. Like, whoopsie. And we handle it great. And then we other have days like where we lose our shit and it just bothers us so much. So it is, and I just think it resonates with parenting. It resonates with entrepreneurship, but that is so important. mean, I can't tell you how many times I have with respect to big reason why I left social media is because

Everyone's so bothered all the time. I wouldn't have used that language until you just said it, but like that makes a lot of sense for me is that everyone's pissed off about something and they feel the need to like talk about it all the time. Even like, just, I don't understand what the point is. I like, by the way, I like can't stand like complaining about things that we like, if you're not doing something about it, I don't want to hear about it. Like, I mean, let's do my best Friday, new events, sometimes we need to invent, but I just.

Rebecca Vigelius (1:02:39)

Mm-hmm.

degrees.

Heather (1:03:01)

It's hard, right? But there's a difference in what you're talking about of being able to one, be unbothered in the first place, but two, be able to do something about it. And I do think that that is, you have to have that magic capability is what it seems like, right? But what you're saying is, it's not actually magic, there's a method to it.

Rebecca Vigelius (1:03:19)

That's exactly right. And you know what? I just want to be super clear. Being unbothered does not mean never being frustrated or angry or sad or pissed off or whatever. That's not what it's about. we need those emotions. Those are all really important. There are no negative emotions. There's just emotions. And so being unbothered means we can move through those at a rapid pace compared to how a lot of folks move through them now.

cover faster and then go and get the shit done.

Heather (1:03:53)

Yeah, amen to that. Okay, I know you have, because I saw that you sent it over to me this afternoon, you have somewhere people can go to learn more about this whole unbothered entrepreneur thing. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Rebecca Vigelius (1:04:04)

I do.

have a new, it's called the Unbothered Entrepreneur ⁓ Blueprint. And you can just go to RebeccaVigalius.com forward slash unbothered blueprint and check it out. And it's really, ⁓ it's like a five to 10, it's a notion board that I've created with some really fantastic, tangible tools in it that you can pick and choose from throughout your day to kind of come back to yourself ⁓ if you're feeling bothered ⁓ or to use as a,

as a tool to ongoing build that capacity in your threat pockets is a really great ⁓ taste of the type of work that I do with people. And it's in its own way very impactful. So go and check that out.

Heather (1:04:49)

I love that it's like a little mini buffet from Las Vegas that people can go in and kind of pick out a couple things to work. I mean, we talked about some of those things today, right? And even just me happen standing into like trying things myself, but like being able to do it intentionally of saying, Hey, let's try some things to create some more capacity, especially going back to the theme of the series, right? Anyone who's like lingering on wanting to make a change, you need to create capacity in your brain, right? To make that happen. So

Rebecca, this was so good. This was like, I said it last week with my interview with Christina, but I was like this beyond my expectations for what this conversation was going to be. I appreciate you so, so much. Thank you. Thank you for being here.

Rebecca Vigelius (1:05:27)

Thank you for having me.

Heather (1:05:29)

Alright friends, and that was another episode that wraps our interview part of the Refresh series. I will be back next week with the final finale episode of the Refresh, and we'll be talking about what I've been doing with having more capacity in my brain bucket. I slaughtered that and said it wrong, Rebecca, don't judge me, but whatever. We're gonna be back next week and you'll hear all about it. Bye friends.