252. What Every Leader Needs to Work On (That Isn't a Marketing Strategy)

Many visible leaders are focused on the wrong thing when they think about growth.

They're asking about which platforms to show up on, tweaking their messaging or chasing AI tools. All external. All tactical. And meanwhile the thing that's quietly running every room they walk into, every video they record, every pitch they make, goes completely unaddressed.

That thing is executive presence. And in this episode, I'm breaking down what it actually means, why it matters whether you're a solopreneur, a founder, or a leader inside a company, and where to point your growth if you want people to genuinely listen to, follow, and want to work with you.

This episode gets into: 
– what executive presence actually is (beyond the corporate buzzword) 
– the ABCs framework: Appearance, Boldness, and Communication, and why each one matters more than you think 
– the real reason you show up differently under pressure, and what to do about it 
– where most leaders are unconsciously holding back and how to stop
– how to figure out exactly which communication skill to focus on first

By the end of this episode, you'll have a clear lens for evaluating where you are right now and a specific place to point your growth.

READ THE FULL SHOW NOTES HERE

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If this episode hit home, I'd be so grateful if yo...

Transcript

Heather (00:02.734)

Well, hey friend, welcome to another episode of the Hint to Hudsle Podcast. It's your host, high performance coach, Heather Sager. And today we are digging into executive presence. Now, you may or may not consider yourself an executive. If you're a if you own your own business, you're an executive. You're the only executive in your company. If you work inside another company, whether you're in a managerial position or you are an employee in in a company, this this episode is about helping you show up.

in more of an executive mode and we're going to talk about why that's important regardless of what your role in an organization is or again if you are in a role of one or maybe you're a solopreneur with some contractors. We need to start shifting and thinking about how we show up and represent ourselves in our personal brand. How how we're showing up, number one.

but number two, how we start shifting how other people see us so that we can further our mission and our goals. Now, I'm just gonna laugh with you for just a moment. I'm gonna break the fourth wall here. This episode, I'm just laughing. I'm recording this on Memorial Day here in the US, the day before this airs. This is gonna air in like literally 12 hours. I'm re-recording this episode. I recorded a different episode last Friday. And

My four team, Dorothy on my team messaged me and she's like, my gosh, I think my computer's broken. Like it's just I can't get the audio to work. So I jumped in and checked it in a fifty two minute episode. The audio I don't know what happened. I think something was unplugged. One of my children got in here to my computer. but I checked this episode twice before I officially hit record and we should be good to go today. But

I'm sharing with you this specific little tidbit that has nothing to do with we talk about today, but maybe it does actually. stuff is gonna go wrong in your business. And sometimes you're going to be on freaking fire and think, like, yes, I'm on top of it. I'm on top of my schedule. my gosh, I got to inbox zero, which I know has literally never happened to me outside of me declaring email bankruptcy. But you're like, things are going great. And then won't wa, life is going to life you and test you.

Heather (02:21.246)

And remember the last few weeks and episodes, I keep coming back to this. You can't control what happens. All you can control is how you react to it. I know this is not new information. I talk about all the time. personal development leaders talk about this all the time. It's our reaction to things. That's what shapes our mood, our vantage point, how we see things, what we talk about, what we focus on. Like we really have to be thinking about how we're reacting to the things that happen. And

I this happened me before where audio hasn't saved on a video or on a training or a two-hour workshop done live, it forgot to be recorded. Like stuff happens as you're as you're as you're doing the work, right? As you're as you're doing work, as you're creating, as you're putting stuff out in the world. it's inevitable that things are going to happen. And I'm sharing with you is when my assistant shared with me, my gosh, it didn't record.

We were laughing because she thought, like, my gosh, this is terrible. And I thought, oof, this just means that I'm meant to record a a better version of the episode. Now, at the time when I when I had this happen, I thought that it was gonna be like, ooh, let me just record it better. There were a couple little tangents that I went off in true Heather fashion. I had quite a few sacred side notes. And a couple of them, like, oof, maybe that was too much, or oof, that was kind of off topic, or maybe I didn't want to say that. And I I usually have

A bit of a vulnerability ramble hangover after my shows. Cause as you can tell, I literally don't script anything when I do podcasts. I don't actually don't script anything when I do anything, but I very much do these episodes fully off the cuff. Like today, I have a messy sheet of paper with written with maybe 15 words, and they're in four different lists. They're not anything coherent. And I I this is like a freestyle. You are getting Heather's brain off the cuff on these episodes. And I and I do that.

Well, one for a variety of reasons. one, I want this to feel very conversational, like we were sitting down for coffee, albeit I know you can't really talk back, but I'll anticipate it. But I I don't like episodes that feel very prescripted. I don't like podcasts that are scripted in any cadence. I don't like it when it sounds like the message was so polished before you get a podcast to me is more intimate. There is like it should not be formal. So

Heather (04:43.882)

Any anyways, all that to say, I was actually very happy that that episode did not record because I was the topic was much more of a marketing topic. And what I want to really shift my focus into is yes, we're gonna talk about marketing from time to time, but I really want to shift more into business mindset, coaching in my business as I lean more into high performance, working a lot more with

more on leadership. I want to talk less about speaking on stages. Granted, stages and speaking will always be something that I do, but for me, it's not the destination. It's an ancillary part of being a bold leader. Speaking is not your focus, your influence and how you show up every single day, whether it's giving workshops, whether it's teaching, whether it's leading your team, whether it's working with your clients, your voice is at the center of what you do. A stage just happens to be part of the mix of things you do.

So I am recentering my business and trying to put stages as an ancillary and not the center. So when I realized the episode I'd recorded was really leaning into what I knew, not where I'm going, which where I'm going I still know, right? But it's just it's a different level branding thing. So all this to say on this ramble preamble of this episode, I want to relate to you in a moment of if you're in a season where you are shifting.

whether it's shifting what you're working on, maybe it's shifting an offer, maybe you're just experiencing an up level and how you operate, right? Growth is going to come with some messiness with it. You're not gonna be confident around what you're doing and it's gonna be a little bit of uncharted territory. But just as my personal trainer talks about, like if it's not uncomfortable, if it's not like hurting a little bit, your muscles aren't growing. And we want stronger muscles. We want growth. So I

actually embraced the pain of knowing that I have to completely redo this episode because as I always say, what opportunities this create? It created room for today's conversation on executive presence. So here's the tie-in with that. You may have heard the term executive presence. Like let's talk about what it what it truly means. There are definitions online and and I can read it to you, right? executive presence. I found this really great episode or not episode.

Heather (07:04.01)

Definition on ITD, which is a global coaching and leadership development organization. They talk about how executive presence, quote, is a combination of personality and character traits, including confidence, competence, and communication that enables leaders to inspire and motivate others. That is me reading literally line for line, word for word, what executive presence is. Simply put, those three words that come out: confidence, competence, and communication.

It's this gravitage that you feel when you're around someone who has, this is what I wrote down, they're self-assured, right? You're standing in front of someone that is clearly confident in themselves, not only in their capabilities, not only in their experience, but they're confident that whatever is happening in front of them, they're gonna figure it out. They're really self-assured. Number two, when you're around someone who's super articulate, right, they can get their point across, not just persuasively, but also concisely.

They are articulate in bringing their ideas out and conveying their expressing their ideas to others. number three, I think executive presence, like when you're around a person who's a little bit ballsy, they're a little courageous, they're a little bit bold, they are not holding back, trying to make the room feel happy. They're the one that are they're okay to say the thing that's going to make people uncomfortable.

They're a little more courageous in their actions, in in their in their words. And then number four, going through this again, one self-assurance, two, articulate three, ballsy, and four, they have heart, meaning that you can tell their intentions are good. I think this is a really important thing that when we're thinking about a persuasive person, we're thinking about a person of authority, we're thinking about a person that we want to follow, they really have these four things, but that fourth one, that heart.

Is people don't really want to follow people who are in it for themselves. People don't want to follow or look up to or listen to people who are clearly just in it for the money or the fame and the attention. Right? This is this is something that we're actually we're repelled by when we get a sense of that, right? So when I think about this term executive presence and why we're talking about it today.

Heather (09:21.088)

Is I feel like this term really encapsulates what a lot of my clients are after. Again, whether you're an expert and solopreneur, maybe you're a coach or you're a service provider and you're building your own brand as that leading authority, or you are an influential leader inside of an organization or you're a founder in a larger scaling organization, what a lot of people come to me from is they or four, they they want to talk better.

Now, previously, a lot of my clients have come to me because they have a big stakes opportunity. that's why they come to me, but they choose to work with me because the scope of our work goes beyond a stage. They know that we're gonna be working on how they show up every day and every week as an influential leader. And we're gonna find micro opportunities for them to practice their executive presence, practice their articulation skills, practice their conciseness, practice their persuasion.

in all these different ways, whether it's in a team meeting or if it's on a live stream or in a video or in a workshop, we're gonna find these opportunities for you to flex that muscle in communication, but it goes beyond that. And that beyond that is the container of executive presence. So I'm gonna hammer this on to you today. We're gonna make this episode relatively short, but I want you to start evaluating yourself in the areas we're gonna dig into today. Where are you at?

When it comes to executive presence. And again, executive presence is around confidence, competence, and communication. And I'm gonna share a couple frameworks today with you, essentially different vantage points to be thinking about what executive presence means for you. but let me pause here for a second, ask you a question.

When you think about your goals for the next 12 to 36 months, which as I say that, that sounds very corporate. We would always say months, and I don't know why months were important. One to three years, one to three years from now, right? Where do you see yourself, both personally and professionally? One to three years from now. Where do you see yourself? Hit pause and answer that question for yourself. You don't have to write it down, though bonus points if you do. Where do you see yourself in one year to three years?

Heather (11:34.679)

And maybe those are two different answers, or maybe they are kind of a version of the same. Okay, I trust that you answered that question. But thinking about your answer to that, I can guarantee if you're listening to this show, you didn't say more of the same. I want exactly where I'm at right now in 12 to 36 months. We'll convert back to months to make it sound more fancy.

I don't know why we do that, right? Why don't we convert things to months? I remember when side tangent. when you have babies, you have to talk in months because literally weeks and months makes all these development milest milestones. But is that the same thing in corporate? I mean, are we translating things and I guess it's bizarre version of dog years in corporate is translating to twelve to thirty six months. Okay. End of that side tangent. But come back. In your goal, when you think about where you want to be in a one to three years from now, it's it's probably in a different spot than where you are. Is it fair?

Right. And and again, if you're like, no, I want to be exactly where I'm going to be, I don't think you'd be listening to this podcast right now because you are growth focused. You are literally listening to this to expand your thinking so that you can grow as a human, as a leader, as a person, as a mom, as a business owner, as a coach. You're here because you want to expand and grow. So when you think about your goals, right? And we think about where we want to be personally and professionally, we're going to lean on professional today.

The question we have to ask ourselves is what are we going to do differently to get to a different place in one to three years, in five years, in 10 years, right? If we want to be in a different place professionally, what are we going to focus on? Now, when you're in corporate, oftentimes in corporate, it's about doing your job, doubling down, getting great performance reviews, being an asset to the team, right? It's usually pretty prescriptive.

When you read your roles and responsibilities, what you need to do. Now, when you're an entrepreneur, you're a business owner, or you're a leader in charge of a big ass budget, we are asking different questions. When we think growth, we are thinking how are we going to grow the organization while cutting costs? We're thinking about what are the marketing strategies, what are the operational efficiencies that we can gain. We're thinking, okay, what systems do we need? What do we need to delegate? What do we need to automate? What do we need to what do we need to keep? What do we need to stop doing, right? All these HR activities.

Heather (13:53.983)

that we do incorporate even in entrepreneurship, we're constantly evaluating going, how do we increase our the people seeing our offers? How do we increase the conversion of those offers? How do we better take care of our clients? How do keep our clients? Right. I'm going off on some tangents here, but you see, logically speaking, we start, especially on the entrepreneur side, we start mathing out what needs to happen for us to get to where we want to go. When usually when we think, where do I want to be in one to three years, as an entrepreneur, we are thinking of a financial metric of the size of our business.

Now, if you're thinking, hey, where do I want to be? If you're a leader inside a company, you're thinking about what role you're going to get and/or what your salary take home is. But in both of these situations, it we are able to define the destination, but the gap for that, when you're a leader, is what's the map to get there? Right. And a lot of times in entrepreneurship, the map is usually directed at some kind of marketing tactic.

What's the funnel or the offer that we're going to put out there? How, like, what's the platform that we're going to show up to then get them into that offer funnel? what's the right now, what's the AI we're going to introduce to create more systemizations inside our company, to make things more automated, to increase efficiencies and such? We start asking like marketing style questions. Today I want you to think differently.

I want you to turn inward and say, what do I need to change? And where specifically do I, as a leader and as a person, need to grow to set myself up for that one to three year vision. Again, the nuance is we're not looking external on the tactics and strategies. We're going to look internal and say, where do I need to develop and grow? And this is where a conundrum is made.

What the fuck do you do with that question? What do you do with that question? What it's like, okay, I should read more books. I should learn to manage my emotions, emotional regulation. I should learn how to reduce my stress. I I I mean all these things could be well and great, but the question so many leaders, myself included, was okay, I know I need to grow, but what does that look like?

Heather (16:19.798)

It's not tangible. It's not tactical. So what am I focused on? And I think this is where the work that I do is actually a really natural fit for the clients that I end up working with in this executive presence lane. It's it's because the the tangible aspect of personal growth, I believe, is where the inside world clashes up against the outside world. And we do that through our communication. It's where we literally push our insides out.

The the thinking, the feelings, that everything we're holding inside, the way it comes out in the world is through our communication. Now, both body language, because sometimes we're terrible at verbal communication, but a resting bitch face says it all. our body language and our communication skills, both written and verbal, that's that's the expression of our internal world. So communication is usually that like oof, we can start there. When you think about how do I develop as a leader.

We can start with communication, but there's going to be more underneath the surface that we really need to do if you want to have that gravita in terms of people want to work with you, people want to listen to you, people want to follow up, people look up to you, right? You really have that authority status, those things that I talked about before, self-assurance. you're articulate, right? You have that boldness and ballsiness about you, and you have that heart that people truly.

Truly care about you and they understand that you care about them and they want to lean in and learn from you. The pinnacle of what to focus on when we think about that map for our own growth, communication should be your number one focus because communication, this is a skill that 1000% can be learned. And what would be the proper term here? accelerated.

Amplified, it can get you can get really freaking good at it actually really quickly. I think this is a big misconception that people have is that you have to have shit tons of experience to become a better communicator. That's just not true. You just have to be really hyper-focused around what are the specific communication skills that you're working on. There are different kinds of communication, right? As I mentioned, body language, the nonverbal, written communication skills, spoken communication skills. And even in spoken, there's so much nuance on that.

Heather (18:36.524)

Right with your spoken, you have the tone in which you say it, the pace, the cadence, and side note. We'll link to the episodes that we have that go into more vocals, and we can talk about more around the vocal mechanics, around how you present your ideas, but that's an aspect of it, right? But even when it comes to the substance of what you communicate, there's brevity and conciseness. How can you get your ideas out more clearly?

There's also the ability to speak extemporaneously or off the cuff, which that was one of our most popular episodes we've done the last couple of years was extemporaneous speaking. We'll link to it in the show notes for you. but there's also the like presentations and teaching and all these types of things, even within something as simple as communication. There are so many specific things that you can focus on. And by the end of this episode, we're gonna talk about okay, so how do you choose what to focus on? So let me write that down. So what

Heather (19:32.377)

We're too focused. This is real time, baby. I'm writing on my thing. You can quite hear it here. So, okay, so let me come back here. I I gave you the caveat at the top of this episode. This is unscripted. So here we go as I as I navigate you through a few things. So, okay, so we talked about executive presence. It's really this embodiment of a leader who has that gravata about them that people want to look to, listen from. They're self-assure, they're articulate, they're a little ballsy and bold.

they have the heart. And we talked about number one, how do we start creating more executive presence? Right. And just to make sure I really like click this for you, the gap between your goal of where you are and where you want to go. Remember, we talked about it's not about external tactics, although there might be some external shit you have to give in place. So for example, if you're a business owner and you don't have an offer that's consistently selling, that would be an example of if you want to grow financially in the next three years, you sure as heck

better have a way for people to pay you money. Right. So that's an example of sometimes you do need to focus on some external pieces. But if you have seemingly the marketing set up, if you have the financial part set up, right, if you have the the systems in place for your business to get found, right? And then convert leads into sales.

We have the mechanics up. Now what we need to do is say, all right, now how do I grow and scale the business? A big part of it is you showing up as a leader and exuding more confidence in potential clients in you and in your systems and offers and training so that they're going to want to work with and learn from you. So there's three areas we're gonna break down in today that that I want you to point your growth at when we're thinking about internal growth.

So that first area is communication. So I'm gonna put a pin on that one and we're gonna circle back and talk about how do we identify which type of communication should we focus on first. But beyond communication, I want you to think about a couple things. So in I was kind of doing a little bit of research before this episode, which surprise, surprise, I usually don't do research before my episodes. I usually write down my own ideas and run with it. But today I really wanted to bring in some backing with me. So

Heather (21:43.565)

I was looking into Brown University and their School of Professional Studies, and they had an article that I thought was really great around executive presence. and they broke down what they called the ABCs of executive presence. So that's what I'm gonna share with you today, and we're gonna link to the article here in the show notes if you wanna read a bit further. It's not a very long article, but I loved how tangibly tactical these things were, but also had the internal side. So let's just hit into them. A is appearance.

B is boldness and C is communication, which I said we're gonna end there and come back to it. So let's talk about appearance because this one here is this is a hot button for me. So when we say appearance, we're quite literally thinking, like, how do people perceive us? What is that first impression? We think about the visuals of our brand, but if if you don't have a brand, right, the visuals of how you present yourself to the world. Like what do you actually look like? How do you

How do you dress? How do you do your hair? Do you do your makeup? Like those types of things. This is where I say it's a little touchy, and we're gonna talk about that just in a second. But appearance is how you present yourself in your work in terms of dress, grooming, and body language, right? So I joked before around resting bitch face. If you have resting bitch face in every single Zoom meeting you show up when you're listening to someone, opportunity there. Your body language is always crossed arms.

slumping or you are uncomfortable with eye contact, which I don't think any of those things would be you again if you are growth focused and listening to the show. But if if our body language is closed off and we're coming across as really meek and insecure, that's not going to have that grounded gravita effect, right? So we need to be thinking of our body language and our physical appearance. Now, if you like me work from home and you do a lot of virtual, whether it's video, Zoom calls,

Appearance is also in your visuals. So, like for me right now, I'm recording this podcast behind me. I'm in my bedroom. You can see a door, you can see a wall, you can see my log cabin. I'm actually still wearing my workout clothes. So there's no video for this one. But if this were a video, right, this would probably be, I wouldn't call this the most professional thing. It's mu more of a girl next door style visual on the brand. I really prefer my home office that I used to have in Portland over to the

Heather (24:07.054)

current visual branding of my office, but it is what it is. But similar, if you're recording a video, right? I've been doing a lot of videos lately in my kitchen online and a lot of videos of me without makeup, with my hair crazy, being in toddler mom mode. That is part of the appearance. And I'm gonna bring up this example as this is a crossroads that I'm actually at personally right now. So let me get a little vulnerable here. I used to

Have a very polished appearance with my brand. I would wake up, get a shower every day, curl my hair every day, I always wore makeup. Heck, half the time I wore fake eyelashes because that's my confidence booster. The whole question around if you were trapped on a deserted island, which is the one thing you would take with you. And for me, it was my eyelash curler. My eyelashes suck. They're so stubby and straight.

anyways, I point being, I always felt more confident when I was, I wouldn't say glam. I've never been a glam, glam person, but when I was made up a bit, I felt I presented a lot more confidence with that. And that was very true for me. Even through the pandemic, even after as we moved, once I had baby number three, I just had to choose between showering and getting ready or getting an extra hour of work in.

And quite frankly, getting the work in was more important. But what happened, and if you've been following me along, I've talked a little bit about this over the last three years. But what happened is deep down, I did not love my appearance. And I'm not saying that that I I'm not a nitpicker of my appearance. Like, yes, I have a big nose. Yes, I have an overactive left eyebrow that like likes to go crazy when I'm on video. but I'm not, I'm no longer, I'll say this, no longer at a stage of my life where I

berate myself or feel badly in my body. Like I'm like, I'm hot. I can glam up. I'm working real hard on my body. Like I I'm confident in myself. I don't think I am a gorgeous person. I don't, I think I can get dr doll up and get pretty. I also can make myself hot. But every day I would not classify me as a super beautiful woman. I'm beautiful in my own way, but I like natural, not natural. you know what I mean? Like if I were to look up a 10 like line of 10 women, I would not put myself

Heather (26:25.768)

in even the top four of prettiness. Like I and I'm not saying that in a way where I feel sorry for myself or I think anything negatively of myself. It's just I don't I don't have that kind of beauty or I don't see that in me, but I also don't see that as a negative thing. Like I think I look pretty freaking average. And side note, I say that because that's also how I feel about my singing voice. This is a total frickin' my God, I'm a side tangent here. But I say this because I've been a singer my whole life performing on stages. In fact I was the preliminary talent winner.

At Miss Oregon back in 2008. my gosh, I'm cringing because I think two episodes I told you ago I was a preliminary swimsuit winner at Miss Washington the year before. my gosh, all my pageant world stuff is coming to fruition here. bringing this back in. my singing voice, it's strong, right? But it would not like I would not get a golden ticket on American Idol by anyways. Like I would also not be in the atrocious, horrible week, but I would be very average, but average does not stand out.

I have a good singing voice. I can go karaoke. I can hold on my own, but it's not exceptional. It's not great. It's not memorable. That's how I feel about my how I look. I'm sharing this with you because I have no emotional stinging. Now, years ago, I would have felt like a like mortified, like I wanted to be a pretty girl, I wanted to be a hot girl. I like had had to work through all of these things here. But I'm saying this to you here today because I know hands down that regardless of

Like whether or not we agree with it, whether or not we even want it to be true. The fact is, people make decisions based on our appearance. It's just, it's fact. We and again, I it doesn't make it right. It doesn't make it like it doesn't mean that it's not wrong, but we do. We all make decisions based on our appearance. So here's here's where I've been at the last three months.

About three months ago, I decided, fuck it. I'm just gonna start recording content, right? Cause I need to get back out there. And I'm feeling this pull to start talking a little bit more about the work that I wanna do, more of the deeper internal work to help people show up more effectively and have their communication skills and the way that they're showing up actually match their capabilities and their brilliance, right? Which is what we're talking about today. It's this executive presence piece. But what I

Heather (28:46.166)

I started doing more videos. Some of it was a little crazy. Some of it was haggard. And I say that because there's a specific video that performed really, really well that my hair is in a horrendous messy bun. And I'm drinking my coffee and I haven't even looked in the mirror. But I say all this and I'm getting a lot of commentary. Like, I love how you show up. I love that you're so authentic. I love, my gosh, you're on fire lately. And I agree with all of that. And I was feeling like, you know what? Fuck it. If I can't get ready, if I can't do my hair, do my makeup, have the perfect set, is it more important to wait and have all that?

Before I create content or start creating content now, even if it's quote unquote not pretty. And I chose the latter, right? Let's just do it now. Here's where things came to head. I saw a video by Cody Sanchez, probably about a month ago. And she talked about, she was like all dolled up in the video, like just very glam. She talked about whatever the percentage is that women who put attention into the physical appearance make X percentage more.

With her income. And I think it was like 35% or something. And she went off on a tangent where she's like, Look, I don't have to agree with this. I don't have to say that it's right. I don't have to like at the end of the day, I want to make more money. So if I gotta put on a clown face to make more money, then fucking give me the makeup, people. And I started laughing because I was like, it's total, total Cody Sanchez of right for it. She's it was it was really well delivered and how she said it. And I remember

I actually recorded a video around that video, like a reaction to it, where I was fully ready to combat that and say, listen, I'm at the phase of my life. I want you to hear me very carefully when I see this. This is what I about to say. I'm at the phase of my life where I no longer care to make that 35% more because I want to show up just real and raw. That that was my stance. I was about to make this video.

And over on like I I'll sacrifice thirty seven percent, thirty-five percent, whatever it was, and look a little more haggard because that's just where I'm at.

Heather (30:54.39)

And halfway through that video reaction, I paused and I said, Am I so committed to wanting to be raw and real? Because that's what's easiest for me in this phase? Or honestly, how fucking difficult would it be for me to blow dry my hair the next time I take a shower? Or for me to spend two and a half minutes.

And put on some concealer and some highlighter and my semi-permanent lip gloss, which stays on for two days. Like how how difficult, how difficult is it that am I so committed to being quote unquote authentic and fighting for my own limitations right now? AKA, I don't have a lot of time. Or could I just frickin' swallow my pride and be like, yeah, you're totally right. People do get paid more for looking more put together.

And I decided to do a little experiment for myself around what that would look like. So I started actually getting ready for five minutes after I showered. I started blow dry my hair every couple days so I'd have a blowout that would last. I and you know what, I felt better. You know what? I look better on camera. You know what? Like I and yes, things like it worked better. I bring this up to you today because this is a real-time thing that I've been going in. Again, as I sit right now, hair in a messy bun in my workout clothes, but

The truth is, if you want to come across as more authoritative, if you want people to look to you as a leader, I know that there are exceptions to these rules. And I know that it is unfair for women versus men. All those things to be true. But just like Cody said, we don't have to agree with it to make it work in our favor. We don't have to agree with it to make it work in our favor. So

This first pillar around the ABCs of executive presence, I really want you thinking about what does my appearance say about my personal brand? What does my appearance say about my personal brand? And again, if you are an entrepreneur, I'm thinking your visual appearance of your branding. I'm thinking about your set when you do video. I'm thinking about your physical, like what you're wearing and how your body language is when you're on camera or you're in person.

Heather (33:16.342)

All these things come together. And so the question I really want you asking yourself today without judgment and with an openness to challenge your own limiting beliefs, just like I did. How can you make this work for you? How can you make appearance work in your favor? And where can you be a little more intentional in up-leveling your appearance? Now don't misconstrue that this episode isn't a, my gosh, go put on some makeup.

That's not what I'm saying here, but I am saying that that might be a like something that you come up with as you know what? I do actually feel a lot more confident when you put on a little light makeup like me. You know what? I do feel a little more confident when I put on a real bra versus my sleep bra. You know what? I do feel a little bit more confident when I put on clothes with a like a button, pants with a button. you know what, I do feel more confident when I have my ring light on when I'm doing video, or if I shower the day that I'm doing batch video versus

Doing my slick back button. I don't know what this looks like for you, but I think it's okay for us to start asking some questions around our appearance. And again, we don't have to agree with the annoying factor that as women we have it freaking differently and we're judged differently. Make it work in your favor. Make it work in your favor and start saying, if I want to be perceived as a thought leader, if I want to perceive as more an authority, I need to act like it and I need to.

look like it. So I'm I'm preaching to the choir here that this is an area that I am excited to get my swagger back on in the second half of 2026. I don't exactly know what that looks like. years ago, side tangent, I actually hired a stylist to come out to my house. We went through my closet, we talked through my own brand and we came up with what are my personal brand visual words.

what does that look like, what does that feel like, what styles look best on me, what colors look best on me. I did a lot of that and I haven't looked at any of that in the last two and a half years. I pulled that back out the other day and I said, oof, these are the colors that work for me. Yes, this is the style. I look really good when I have a bold shoulder. So random, this is oddly specific, but any a time I wear anything that has like a like a shoulder pad, if you will, or like the angular up whiter shoulder or like a ruffle up there.

Heather (35:37.889)

It works really well for my neckline and my chestline and it balances out. I have really wide hips. So for me, like style, I'm I'm looking like, let's stop buying random basic tanks off of Amazon because an influencer told you this one with the built-in bra was gonna work really good. I'm going, okay, what if I actually went to the store and spent a little bit more money and bought things that I loved? I'm going through my closet again. I'm looking at what's my what's my quote unquote daily uniform. Maybe this is really too granular for you, or maybe you're like, Yeah.

This is like basic stuff that I know is not anything new. But as I quote all the time, the Will Rogers quote, just because it's common sense doesn't mean it's common practice. And sometimes the next level version of us just needs to pull from the things that we already know, refine them, and do them better. So coming back to it, the ABCs of executive present, A, this is a great opportunity today. I want you thinking about how can I elevate my appearance?

And again, this isn't about wearing makeup or getting Botox or any of that. The question is how do you show up as your best? When do you physically feel your best? Maybe this means that for you, you want to start moving your body again because you're feeling really sluggish lately or you've been staying up too late or you've been maybe a little drink a drink it too much lately. May maybe you're a little puffy or

Whatever, so maybe there's a physical aspect of this that you feel your best and look your best with your moving your body and you are making great choices for your body. I don't know what the answer is for you. And I know you're a grown-ass adult and you've done this kind of stuff before. So I think you can tune in and ask some questions. But number one, if you want to come across more authoritative and with that executive level presence, we really need to be aware of how others perceive us. And it starts with our appearance. Number two, let's talk about boldness.

Now, I'm gonna read this line here from the School of Professional Studies again at Brown University. Boldness is the embodiment of calmness, courage, and self-assurance, especially under pressure. Now, the reason why I love this word so much and why I went with this methodology around executive presence for this episode is I love how this talked about the how we show up under pressure. Because I think this really represents the type of person that I work with.

Heather (37:54.231)

It's not just, it's not just people. It's not even ambitious people. It's leaders. You're either in charge of big ideas or a business or a team that you rely on your ability to have other people listen and learn from you and follow you. And you're often in like high pressure situations. So high pressure, maybe you're being interviewed live, or you are delivering a workshop and selling a $10,000 program, or you are in an executive meeting and you're trying to get funding for your department for X, Y, and Z.

Like under pressure in a lot of situations. And it's what's interesting is sometimes we can be so intentional with our communication skills or with our own self-awareness. But then when it's time to perform under pressure, we like black out and a different version of us shows up. I know this used to be true for me. So here's another story. So back before I started my business.

If you've been around before, you know that I used to work at a management firm in healthcare. We worked with private practice audiologists. But I spent a lot of times in meetings. We had we were gearing up to sell our company. We want to be acquired, and they were they would bring in these potential buyers. Now, at the time, none of the employees in our company knew that they were looking to sell the company. So it was pretty hush-hush. It was a pretty small circle of us that would come in.

To do presentations for these prospective buyers. And a lot of them were hearing aid manufacturers and a couple other bigger competitors. But these were typically people that would come in internationally. And a lot of times they were, well, they were definitely older than me. most of the time they were men in their 50s, 60s, maybe late 40s, but I was in my late 20s, early 30s, so everything seemed old.

Now I'm in my mid-40s and I'm like, not so old. anyways, but I remember I would come in and I had this refreshing nature about me that I wasn't overly stuffy and I I have great communication skills, as you hopefully have experienced in my work. But I remember that when I would be in a situation where I really was nervous or I wasn't as confident, or I I just wanted to feel like I belonged.

Heather (40:14.966)

I did this weird thing where my voice got higher and I talked faster, which, as you can probably gauge from our time together, I'm a fast talker anyways, but my voice would change and I would physically feel my throat constricting that in certain situations, I just talked differently. And I didn't notice it for a long time. And I to be honest with you, I well, I probably got one more comfortable with it, but I really didn't see it until

Probably about two years into running my own business as a consultant and coach, I didn't notice it. And actually you can see this in real, you can see this in real time. I had the same reaction when I started creating video content. I had the same thing. My voice got weird when I went on video. And in fact, if you go to my YouTube channel, you know what? We'll link. I'm gonna try to remember to mark this and link it the show notes. there is a specific YouTube video. It's about talking with your hands.

If you actually Google talking with your hands, Heather Sager, I'm sure this video will will pop up. The content of the video is good, but if you want I I'm cringing thinking about you watching this video, but I want you to go watch it. And I I laugh because I get notifications this or this video at least every month if people find it and they like it because the content's good. But I cringe at my delivery because my voice and my energy is please like me. Please like me.

my gosh, like I I look like an idiot. I look and sound like an idiot. So just if I if it were weren't gonna do it, I now you're probably gonna be like, hell yeah, I wanna see this. But I want this is the example of what I'm talking about, is you can be really good. Like I had at that point when I shot that video, I had been speaking on stages for 15 years. Like that's a long time speaking on stages. I was very comfortable in front of groups. High pressure for me was the fricking video camera. I hated being on video, pre-recorded video specifically.

I was so uncomfortable. So coming back to executive presence, which pause. You can you can watch the video after we're done here. So just come come back to me here. you can watch the video later, find it in the show notes. But boldness, coming back to the definition from the School of Professional Studies, boldness is the embodiedness of calmness, courage, and self-assurance, especially under pressure. This is where your competence and confidence comes through.

Heather (42:37.9)

When you're in a situation, whether you're in an interview or doing a webinar or you're in an uncomfortable, challenging moment with the client, your self-assuredness, aka your confidence and your ability to navigate the situation, your competence to be able to pull from your own skill set and toolbox and use it. This boldness is not only am I confident I'm gonna do it, but I'm gonna do it really well. The self-assuredness is so, so important. Now, here's the caution is so many leaders that I work with.

They hold back on the boldness because they doubt themselves so much. Said differently, they second guess their own actions and even their own thinking. Right? We talk ourselves out so much of our own ideas and own thinking, therefore we don't say anything. And executive presence means speaking up when the moment requires it. And

This is an area where we need to be a little more bold. We need to say the challenging thing to our client. We need to ask the difficult question. We need to make the opinion public. We need to share our vantage point and our thoughts. If you want to be a thought leader, you have to be more bold sharing your thoughts and ideas. You can't play in your own little safe bubble and expect that people are going to see you as a leader. If you're just rambling and saying things that are safe all the time.

No one's gonna look to you to say, what do you think about that? Because historically speaking, your thoughts and opinions have just been average. People don't want average, they want exceptional. A leader steps ahead. A leader gives us a place to go so that we can follow. You get that? A leader isn't just hanging out in the pack. A leader goes, right? And says, Let me come with you. Come or come with me. I don't know, whatever, right? But you get that metaphor there. So we have to be a little more bolder in our thinking. We have to be willing to push.

What we think, and like my example with Cody Chanchez, Cody Sanchez, Chanchez, words are hard. we have to be willing to challenge our own thinking. So for example, I was up in arms, ready to challenge her idea. And then, surprise, surprise, I left churned and challenged my own thinking. We have to be willing to challenge ourselves, not for the sake of just being devil's advocate. Side note, I hate people who just want to play devil's advocate all the time.

Heather (44:59.242)

Unless the devil's advocate is something that's actually productive to the conversation to get us thinking bigger, right? I don't want to just poke holes in something, I want to poke holes with purpose, like expand our thinking so that we can get to a better landing point. So really thinking about what this means for you with boldness. Where are you holding back? Where are you playing safe? Where are you ha flying just under the radar? Because you don't want to stand out and attract potentially negative.

like eyeballs or negative reactions from people. This is where a lot of people hold out. We don't want to have a controversial opinion or we don't want to poke the freaking bear online because we're worried that people are going to disagree with us. Well here, I mean newsflash if you're gonna have a strong opinion, yes, people will disagree with you. But also that's where you find the people they're like, thank God someone put words to that. I think that too. It's how you find your people. You align with your pink

People and at least you start having really dynamic conversations. But where people get this wrong is they they put out these bold opinions or they they challenge, but then they are closed-minded to a dialogue or discussion around it. I think what's really awesome about leaders with their boldness is they are bold and open at the same time.

So for example, when I was a leader, if I wanted to push my team in a certain direction, it was a little beyond their comfort zone and they didn't quite see the vision for it yet. But that was my job to hold the vision, even when they didn't quite believe in it yet, and hold the vision and get them excited about the vision until they were all believing in it. But what would happen is I'd have the vision, but then I would invite my team into it by understanding their perspective, having them help me poke holes in the vision so that we can ensure that the direction we were headed.

was the strongest possible. My job is to set the direction of vision, but stay open to how we get there. That's how I viewed myself as a leader. So there's this boldness piece, but sometimes when we give our opinion, there's this one I'm gonna use this example and I don't I'm not gonna use this person's name, but there was someone that I had a conversation with on threads last year. And she talked about how she absolutely hated

Heather (47:14.344)

anyone who used the word magnetize in their marketing and just how essentially that it was stupid and people were stupid for using it. She didn't say those words, but that was the translation, right? And I kind of made a joke. I was like, huh? Or she said nobody could possibly grow their business with something like that, using that word. And at that point I've been in business for seven years and done at least six figures every single one of those years.

And I was like, so funny. I was like, I actually use that words. My client quote me for those words. They send me things related to those words. And I've been very successful with those words. So agree to disagree. Right? She had a bold opinion, as did I, that I disagreed. Both of us were right. But instead of holding space for both of us to write, she came at me with claws and was essentially like, Well, you're stupid because magnetized literally means opposite.

Like you like literally the word magnetize is just stupid. That's not actually what you're talking about. And that magnets are actually opposite of the other and that's why they work. And in my head, I'm like, I can argue this bitch all day long because yeah, I'm not saying I'm the same as my clients. The clients don't want someone who's the same as them. They want someone who's actually gonna teach them what they need. So yeah, the magnetized thing actually works because we click, right? You're drawn to me because I have something that you want. Yes, right. So anyway, so all this to say.

I share this with you is this person. I developed a very negative, a very negative of this is a very popular name in the industry. I've never talked to her in my life until this thread, but I know a lot of people of my peers who run in the same circles and work in respect with this person. I now have zero respect for this person because the way she reacted to me challenging her opinion was there was no openness. She doubled down on saying people were stupid. And good for her, right? That's that's fine.

But what I'm sharing is my opinion is if you want to be a thought leader and you truly want to stand out with executive presence, whether in your role or in your industry, whatever that looks like, you have to be willing to have the bold opinion, but don't shit on people for disagreeing with it. Be open to others' opinions and understand that two things can be true. Pick and choose what you're gonna double down on, but don't shit on people for having a difference of opinion on you. Here's the thing we can have a difference of opinion.

Heather (49:31.382)

And that difference in opinion can be because our reference points are different, our experiences are different, and our goals are different. So for like I we don't need it on this tangent anymore, but when we think about boldness, I want you to pair be bold, but be open as you're being bold. And you really, really clear on what you stand for, who you are, how you ensure that your competency is joining the conversation when you show up.

So coming back to what's this internal growth that we work on? All right. So let's go back to boldness came down to again the three words they use was calmness, courage, and self-assurance under pressure. So what do we need to work on internally? Well, my question for you is how do you perform right now under pressure? Like what are the specific situations in your role that make you really sweaty? Right. You know what I'm saying, right? The underboob sweat that happens when you think about even doing it or you're actually doing it.

I really want you paying attention to what are those high pressure situations and what would it look like if you stopped avoiding them and doubled down and made yourself do them more? Could we take the pressure out of those situations and start normalizing it a bit, right? So that we can show up a little better in those. Courage is how can you be showing up a little more, a little more ballsy?

Where you holding back a get because a bit because you're trying not to ruffle feathers? These are the things that I want you thinking about in your own growth. Now, tangibly speaking, what does that look like? Hmm, does that mean to audit your day? Could you ask the question of hmm, at the beginning of the day, where could I be a little more bold today? At the end of the day, where did I hold back a little bit? Where where was I holding back? What what was holding me back? How could I do that a little bit more boldly next time?

These self-reflections start into your day. This is the inner work that's gonna help you show up better, dare I say, more magnetically. my gosh, I make myself laugh. Okay, going through the third of the ABCs of executive presence. Again, we have the A was appearance, B was boldness, C is communication. And I know I talked a lot about this one, but I really want to get present to you.

Heather (51:49.635)

Where are we going to focus? Because communication relates to how we express our ideas when we're speaking or presenting. And when you're a leader, again, regardless if you're leading other people or leading an audience or leading yourself, communication matters. Like it is the expression of your inner world and your outer world. So I want you to start thinking about where are you communicating in your day, in your week professionally? We're gonna start professionally, but side note this totally carries over to personal life.

But where are you communicating most? And how can we be 1% more intentional with our communication? Or what's one specific area of communication that you know has been a friction point for you that you really want to master? So for example, maybe it's short form video. You want to start putting out more thought leader content, you want to do more of those off-the-cuff videos. Maybe it's maybe it's that.

Maybe it's oof, I want to get better at giving presentations. I want to speak on stage, or I want to run more workshops on behalf of my business, or if you're in a company, you want to be able to raise your hand to speak at sales conferences. Like you want to give, you want to get better at public speaking and presenting. Okay, that's what you're gonna work on. maybe it's maybe it's your own podcast.

That you want to get better riffing like I do on solo episodes and lean off of the script a little bit. Or maybe it's doing podcast interviews. You want to be a better interviewer or interviewee. I'm not sure what the goal is for you, but I want you to get clear around where do I spend my time communicating? Where would I, what do I wish I spent my time communicating more? What do I want to do better? Start asking those questions to create some clarity around where we can poke like point our growth.

What can we work on? Now, how do we work on it? Well, you know, that's what I do. We can talk about that all day long. But it starts with one getting clearer on what we actually need to grow, like what kind of communication, and then reps. How can we do it more often? And as we do it, how can we refine it? As we go and you can actually leverage some of the skills and strategies that I teach you on the show and also inside my courses. So communication is an area. So

Heather (54:02.616)

Let's back up here. So the ABCs around executive presence, appearance, you have a couple questions to ask yourself there. Boldness, you definitely have some questions to ask yourself. So you're showing up a little bit more courageously. And then we talked a lot at the beginning of the episode and you're at the end around communication. How is the way that we're expressing our ideas on any given day, in any given moment, especially under high pressure, how is that how is that coming across? And when summarizing all these together,

How people perceive us said differently, whether or not they choose to listen to us and to follow our own advice or want to learn more from us, all of it comes down to all these things coming together, right? The first impression, the way that they perceive you as you're communicating your appearance, the actual communication itself, right? How effective, concise, commanding you are with your words, how compelling you are, and then that boldness.

Is do you actually have the conviction and self assurance where they're like, Yes, this is the kind of person I want to follow? These three things coming together is really what helps you come across as the kind of leader that you want. And that is how, like the vehicle, like load the car, baby, here we go. That's how you achieve your goals in the next few years, whatever that timeline was. Twelve months, one year, you know, three years, thirty-six months. I don't know why that one specific fact is the one that I'm taking away from this episode, but

Whatever yay, geeky corporate speak. this is what I want you to work on. And I know you want to work in these areas, but it's so interesting because it's so much more fun to go. How can I learn a specific skill, like or a specific tactic and implement it? Or right now, how can we create a bot with AI to do X, Y, and Z that we may or may not even need? Right. Like it's those are more exciting because you can kind of hold them in your hand theoretically.

These internal skills, they're so intangible. but babe, these are going to make the biggest difference from you because this is like an investment into your into the asset of you. Sounds so cheesy, but you you are the asset. You are the brand, right? Regardless if your business has a different name or you're within a company. You're like the way that you show up, this is all coming in to be who are you?

Heather (56:28.692)

As a personal brand. This is how you build it. So it starts with you getting much better at being aware of the gap between your perception and how others perceive you. So that's what I'm gonna leave you with today's episode. I know I gave you a lot of questions to ask. So we'll go ahead and put those questions that we asked in today's interview into the show notes. You can get them on my blog.

we'll put this on there for you because I actually think this would be a really great exercise for you go to go through. But really thinking about all right, when it comes to appearance, when it comes to boldness, when it comes to communication, how do I think I'm really showing up? And that gap between how you think and other people actually perceive you. I might ask a couple of your trusted friends or colleagues and have them give you some feedback of how they perceive you and be open to what they say.

Right. Don't hide from it, but be open and say, how can this serve me? Okay, friend, we are at, whoa, we are at an hour today. This was a great episode. I hope this met you exactly where when I hope this met you exactly where you needed it. I have a I have a really strong feeling this is the episode that you need to start thinking about more self-awareness around where you as a person and as a leader are gonna grow in your next level. I know I say this all the time, but holy crap.

This next chapter for you and I, it is going to be so freaking amazing. And it's because we're not looking around, freaking out about what's happening around us or worrying or concerning ourselves with what other people are doing. We have our eyes on our own paper and we are focused on us becoming the abs a freaking like best version of ourselves and showing up as someone that we are proud of day in and day out.

And that's what's gonna take you to your next chapter. All right, friend, I hope you enjoyed this episode. Always, always let me know. let me know what you think over on the Instagram. And I'll see you again next week. Bye, friend.